Episodes  · Season 99  · Episode 73  · 47 min

Leon Harlow: Trust Beats Reach

Leon Harlow, Group Commercial Director at YMU, the UK's largest talent management business, on why traditional media gatekeepers have become less important as creators build captive, deeply engaged fan bases, why trust is a more powerful metric than reach, and what a comedy podcast selling out the O2 Arena in seconds tells us about the creator economy's next phase.

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 ·  The Business of Marketing  · S99 E73  · 47 min
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"Having your own captive, deeply engaged fan base is now the underlying currency in the entertainment ecosystem."

The Conversation with Justin Cooke

Why deeply engaged communities are the most valuable asset in entertainment and why trust beats reach every time

Leon Harlow spent his early career brand-side at Unilever during the Keith Weed era before moving into talent management, building out brand partnerships teams, and eventually joining YMU Group, the UK's largest talent management business. YMU represents talent across TV, music, sport, podcasting, and the creator economy, from Ant and Dec and Graham Norton to Mrs Hinch and Stacey Solomon to chart-topping artists and podcasters.

In this conversation Harlow traces the three big shifts he has seen in the entertainment ecosystem: the speed at which creators can now move, the fragmentation of traditional media, and the feedback loop that occurs when audiences participate in storytelling. He makes the case that trust is a more powerful metric than reach, and that the creator economy is now producing businesses, not just careers.

Key Takeaways

  • Having your own captive, deeply engaged fan base is now the underlying currency in entertainment. Traditional gatekeepers have become less important.
  • Three big shifts: creators can move at the speed of culture, traditional media is fragmenting, and audiences participate in storytelling through feedback loops.
  • The metric more powerful than reach is trust. Highly engaged communities leverage trust so much more than broad audiences.
  • Shits and Gigs sold out the O2 Arena with a few social posts. No media partners. No paid promotion. Just five years of building community organically.
  • YouTube is the new pilot stage. Creators prove formats on their channels. Streamers and broadcasters come knocking.

Topics Covered

  1. 01 Why traditional media gatekeepers have become less important for creators
  2. 02 The three big shifts in entertainment: speed, fragmentation, and feedback loops
  3. 03 Why trust is a more powerful metric than reach
  4. 04 How creators are building businesses worth hundreds of millions from captive communities
  5. 05 YouTube as the new pilot stage for TV, film, and streaming commissions

Key Exchanges

05
01 Tell us about YMU and the diversity of talent you represent.

YMU is the UK's largest talent management business. We represent TV personalities like Ant and Dec, Graham Norton, Davina McCall, Emma Willis. High-profile creators like Mrs Hinch and Stacey Solomon. Chart-topping music artists, sports personalities, podcasters, authors. And we have a sports marketing consultancy side working with brands, rights holders, and platforms. Clients include Nestle and Apple TV Ted Lasso.

The breadth of the YMU portfolio across traditional talent and the creator economy.

02 What is the biggest shift you have seen over 14 years?

The gradual transfer where traditional gatekeepers have become less and less important. Talent and creators now do not need to wait for commissioners. They connect directly with audiences, scale those audiences, and build their brands direct to consumer. Having your own captive, deeply engaged fan base is now the underlying currency in the entertainment ecosystem.

The structural shift from gatekeeper to direct-to-fan.

03 Tell me about Shits and Gigs.

We have two creators called James and Fouhad. When they joined us they were not even full-time creators. They had jobs to pay the bills. Podcasting on the side. Five years later they are one of the fastest growing comedy podcasts in the world, bigger than pretty much anything on linear TV. A few months ago they sold out the O2 Arena with a few social posts. No paid promotion. All organic growth. Seven figures in revenue.

The lived example of what community-first creator growth produces.

04 Why is trust more powerful than reach?

There is an obsession with reach. But the metric more powerful than reach is trust. What we see with highly engaged communities is that you are leveraging trust so much more. The ones that have harnessed community are the ones growing fastest, not just in terms of revenues but in terms of the businesses they are building.

The core commercial argument for community over reach.

05 What role should brands play in communities?

The opportunity for brands is to engage at a participatory level rather than hovering above communities. Understand which communities you want to tap into in sport or music or specific niches. Then become a participant so you are part of the conversation versus just hovering above it. That is the fundamental difference.

The invitation for brands to move from sponsorship to participation.

S99 E73Season & Episode
47 minDuration
14yr+ Leon Harlow in talent management and creator economy partnerships
350M Mr Beast's subscriber count that Amazon paid $100M to access through a TV show deal

"An obsession with reach. But the metric more powerful than reach is trust. Highly engaged communities leverage trust so much more."

Hear Leon on
The Business of Marketing
Season 99 Episode 73 47 min
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Lightly edited for readability.

Host Tell us about YMU and your background.

Harlow YMU is the UK's largest talent management business. Ant and Dec, Graham Norton, Mrs Hinch, Stacey Solomon, chart-topping artists, podcasters. I started brand-side at Unilever, moved into talent management, and have been in this world for 14 years. The biggest shift I have seen: traditional gatekeepers have become less important. Creators build captive, deeply engaged fan bases direct to consumer.

Host Why is trust more powerful than reach?

Harlow Shits and Gigs, our comedy podcast clients, sold out the O2 Arena with a few social posts. No media partners. No paid promotion. Five years building community organically. The metric more powerful than reach is trust. Highly engaged communities leverage trust so much more. That is the underlying currency of the creator economy.