Lightly edited for readability. Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to this episode of The Business of Marketing, recorded live at Cannes Lions '26. Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Lisa Morgan who's the managing director of Generation Media. Uh, Generation Media is one of the UK's leading independent media agencies specializing in children, young people, and family audiences, advising some of the world's best-known brands on how to engage one of the most dynamic, influential, and fast-changing consumer groups. Uh, Lisa, you've spent more than two decades, which I can't believe, but, um, in this specialist field, um, working across both global agency networks, independent businesses. You sit on the employee ownership trust board at Generation Media. You're an executive coach. So I think you've got a really unique kind of perspective on leadership culture and the future of agencies. So welcome to The Business of Marketing.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me, and in the best setting I think we possibly could have found.
Speaker 1: It almost looks too good to be true.
Speaker 1: Is it a filter they will be asking. Um, so look, let's start with Generation Media. Sort of on the face of it, media planning is media planning. You've built an agency kind of entirely focused on children, young people, and families. What was the insight behind creating this specialist business?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So my founder and CEO, Dean Weller, I think really identified quite early on a gap in the market where agencies were generally treating children as a homogenous group, and obviously trying to compare a 16-year-old, um, obviously comes with some challenges, uh, for clients who are narrow in this space. So, uh, we identified the opportunity, um, or he identified the opportunity and, um, really it went from strength to strength because there was a complete gap in the market. Um, and I think what, what we've had to do along that journey is launch, um, a host of businesses from Insight to Creative who all specialize in that field as well. I mean, the Insight Gap, as you're aware, um, most of the generic desktop tools will sort of start at the age of 16 plus. So we've had to fill that Insight Gap ourselves at a global level, but that really gives us a USP and understanding of the marketplace. Um, but our breadth extends way beyond children as well. So we're, we're very strong in the video gaming space, so it's really understanding kind of that fandoms and culture piece. And I think really we... Our new slogan when we rebranded last year is powering brands generation by generation because that audience centricity can be applied to any generation.
Speaker 1: I was gonna ask you that very question, and I think that's perfect. You're also kinda capturing them when they're young, and then you're gonna be with them-
Speaker 2: Exactly
Speaker 1: ...all the way through their life journey.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we're 18 years old, so coming up to our 20th birthday. So obviously that first cohort that we were speaking to and seeing them evolve, uh, we're actually now speaking to in the video gaming market. So yeah, we're, we're seeing those audiences through. So it won't be long before we get to, uh, kind of the older end of the market, so kind of a, a cradle to grave philosophy.
Speaker 1: So I'm a marketer. What makes this kind of audience fundamentally different from almost every other audience that we target?
Speaker 2: Um, I think the unpredictability probably our clients would say. So best laid plans, but kids will decide for themselves if they like something or don't like it. Um, I think probably a really good example of that, um, last summer was the, uh, Demon Pop Hunters. Um, I d- I think I've actually heard presentations where Netflix bought this, um, entity, uh, had no idea how it performed, just stuck it up there, and then look where we are now. Um, and that was without any strategy, any plans behind it. So, um, yeah, it's, it's quite amazing working in children's space, just not really knowing what will work and what won't. But obviously it's our job to put some science behind that and try and work out from a media perspective what combinations are gonna give us the best platform for success. Um, I think also the fact that they're such early adopters, uh, so I'm sure we'll come on to talk about the social media ban in a moment, but, um, how will that legislation keep up with their adoption of new technologies, um, because th- the platforms will just keep coming.
Speaker 1: And sort of linked to that, I suppose in a sense, sort of, you know, obviously is the outcome. How have kind of family kind of decision-making kind of dynamics changed compared to sort of even 5 or 10 years ago?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I think children are so involved in the household decisions now, and parents are so influenced by their childrens, which is probably very different from when we were all growing up. Um, and I think w- we never use the term pester power, we call it a parent-child negotiation because they're part of the discussion.
Speaker 1: Yep.
Speaker 2: Um, and I think ... I can't remember the stats off the top of my head, but even coming down to the big ticket items like a holiday, a car, a home, the children will have a say in those purchases, and quite a strong say in those purchases. If the child turns around and says they don't like that brand of car, the parents won't be buying it.
Speaker 1: And let's sort of take that through all the way to the, to the work. So when, when a client kind of really understands its audience, kind of how does that kind of manifest itself and, and, and, and sort of i- in terms of quality and, and performance?
Speaker 2: Sorry, can you just say-
Speaker 1: Yeah, sure. So like, so basically if you get, if you get it right-
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 1: ...what's the impact in terms of understanding the audience?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think, I think having that in-depth insight, um, and those little nuggets of information that just, that, that do appear, like, um, the, the work we do with Giraffe Insights, who's our insight partner, um, Maxine's actually the managing director who's with me on this trip today as well. Um, when, when we find those little nuggets, they s- then start to trend through everything we're seeing. So for example, I think, um, 18 to 24 months ago, we really saw that Bluey phenomenon coming through in the research, and that's just kind of l- then taken off and skyrocketed from there. But by having those insights early, we can latch on to those new trends and crazes just at, at their inception rather than being late to the party and they're already out and gone.
Speaker 1: That's a, a brilliant kind of segue into kind of my next sort of chapter, I suppose, in a sense, which is sort of like that understanding that new generation. So building on kind of that sort of, you know Yeah, I, I... Maybe it's a stereotypical kind of generalization, but sort of typically kind of young, young- younger generation first to adopt kinda new technologies, platforms, and behaviors as you were sort of saying. How, how, how closely do you have to stay connected to those shifts? And building on the giraffe point, sort of how do you actually do that?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we, w- we have to stay very close, and tracking all licenses across all platforms to see what's up and coming, what's new, um, because some things can be more flash in the pan, and it's really important that we take that moment in time that it's there, so we have to get in there early. Um, so we're actually just in the process of building out a new tool. Is it called Foresight, Maxine? Yeah, a new tool called Foresight, um, where we can actually keep a, a track across all of those platforms to see what's upcoming, what's new. Um, and that's something that clients really wanna buy into as well because whether you're a toy brand try- trying to identify the next license to buy in, or a video game trying to identify what, what game might be next for next Christmas, um, whether you're a clothing brand trying to identify what the next craze will be, it ... For all markets, it's so important to see what those trends coming through are.
Speaker 1: And what kind of changes in media consumption have surprised you most over the last few years?
Speaker 2: I think it's actually... I'll probably reverse the answer on this one.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So I think actually what, what surprised us was when I think back to the inception of the business, we were, we were 99% linear TV, I would say. Um, and I think actually the rate of change wasn't quite as the market would project or predict. I think there's still something very safe in the children's space about a trusted platform like TV, and I really think it took till COVID to hit to, um, to see that big transition into, um, the digital sphere. So whilst there is that early adoption piece, it shows there still is that parental influence, um, particularly at a younger age of child. So yeah, I'd almost reverse that to say something, some- sometimes the surprises are, we talk about them being so fast-moving and so early adopting, but it, it actually took more time in our, um, in our segment and our audiences than, than probably the wider population to, to get to the position we're in now.
Speaker 1: When you think about that kind of at the household, your parents and children kind of consume media pretty differently. Sort of, you know, how has that kind of changed the way that you sort of think and plan?
Speaker 2: They do consume very differently, but also I think there's something really beautiful about this moment in time where families are really coming together again-
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm, mm-hmm
Speaker 2: ... um, and having those shared experiences. Um, and again, I, I sound like a bit of a dinosaur going on about linear TV, but I think actually linear TV-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... and some of the shows we have on-
Speaker 1: It's a great unifier
Speaker 2: ... is, is actually providing that opportunity. I think what's also really interesting in the experiential space is, um, rather than trying to push messages out through kind of traditional media, that I think there's a real gap for experiential 'cause families want to be out there experiencing brands together. Um, and I think that's really where we're at post-COVID. Um, I think i- it is about experiences, and I think the social media ban will emphasize that even more. I mean, we can discuss in a minute how far we actually think that will go in terms of impacting consumer behavior. But, um, I think what it will encourage parents to do is think more deeply about how their children are spending their time, which that experiential piece will probably come through even more.
Speaker 1: So you're sort of seeing a kind of a shift in the way that kind of marketers think about sort of building relationships rather than simply just trying to reach them.
Speaker 2: 100%. I think, I think one of the things that's really shown through this week is kind of a, a shift from kind of an attention and awareness measurement through to more thinking about affinity and fandoms. Um, and, and I think that's really gonna be the next wave that we see come through. We're holding, um, in, in association with Bauer Media in London next week, we're hosting a video gaming, uh, conference, and actually the, the slogan for this year is From, um, Attention to Affinity, so it's actually that shift in terms of those traditional metrics we look at, um, and, and where we're going now with it. And, and I think having that long-lasting loyalty and engagement where you're not just pushing out to them is gonna be really important.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about kind of specialism, I suppose, in a sense. So, you know, you've worked kind of both inside sort of major global networks and specialist kind of independents. Um, kind of, you know, why does specialism sort of still matter?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think... I mean, everyone, everyone's in their lane, and I think there's a place for everyone in the marketplace. I think the big difference with the network, what we tend to do is work very strongly with the more challenger brands. Um, so I think networks are very good. When you're looking at your, your multimillion, multibillion budgets globally, I think they really kind of come into their own. But when the, when you're looking at budgets on the smaller end that need to work harder and really generate those results, 'cause they're hard fought for budgets, I think that's really where we come into our own. And I think as well, providing that, um, agility of service where every person who's working on your business is truly connected to your business, um, rather than having separate teams all doing different things at different times, and not necessarily... It's, it's not always easy to collaborate in that environment, 'cause everyone's got their own missions. Um, and I think that's something we try and break down at The Independents to, to kind of give that competitive edge. Um, we're actually, as you mentioned at the beginning, employee ownership trust owned, and I think, again, that just gives another layer of, um, employee retention and employees understanding a bit more about their connectivity into the overall company mission, which then drives the client mission or vice versa. Um, so I think, I think that's really important part of where we're currently at, is, is knowing that everyone's on that journey with us, and they, they can link that causal effect of client success to their personal success as well
Speaker 1: There was, you know, this old sort of adage of kind of, you know, economy of scale whereas kind of tech has kinda come in really I suppose in a sense and sort of democratized and kind of perhaps challenged that kind of concept.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: You know, how has kind of that sort of, uh, technical kind of revolution, I suppose-
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 1: ... have really changed things?
Speaker 2: I mean, the commoditization media and I think AI is obviously driving this further.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So once we're all in a position where we can at touch of a button get campaigns booked and do all those things, how do you really stand out? And I think we owe it to kind of our teams and future generations to make sure they're equipped with the skills that are gonna be required. So we're speaking to our teams quite a lot about, um, strategy, uh, and how they have those more challenging conversations with clients. Um, and I think that's gonna be really important for their future to ensure that, that, that they can have those senior leadership kind of conversations earlier on in their career because the administrative side just isn't gonna be there anymore.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about sort of media effectiveness in, you know, a fragmented world. Uh, we've sort of talked a little bit about sort of, you know, the kind of the dynamics, but sort of let's get a bit more into the weeds of, of kind of, you know, kids, parents, young people moving seamlessly almost, you know, between platforms, devices, and formats. How do you kind of think about sort of delivering a kind of effective media planning strategy in that type of environment?
Speaker 2: I think it's just always having your finger on the pulse. So as soon as the social, uh, media ban was announced last week, we had Giraffe insights going to market. We've already got back a, a deck of results, um, showcasing where we think the impact's gonna be. Um, and I, I think that's the key, is just making sure you're investing in insight to really truly understand what's going on. Because if you just take it at face value, you'd be like, "Oh, okay, let's not plan any social or YouTube onto any of our plans," which, uh, would be quite detrimental approach I think. So then it's understanding by platform, how do parents actually feel about this? How do children feel about it? Where do we think we're actually gonna land?
Speaker 1: And let's talk about sort of metrics and measurements. Sort of, yeah, what's your kind of view on sort of where they're, where they're, where, where, where they're going, you know? Has the industry become too focused on reach efficiency, and what do you kind of s-... There's a lot of talk, you know, in Cannes this-
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 1: ... this year about sort of outcomes and so forth. Where, where do you sit on that?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we've kind of gone through like going from the traditional media metric to talking more about that attention and awareness piece, and now as I say, I think it will be more about that engagement and affinity that brands manage to achieve. Um, so I think, I think we're gonna definitely see shifts in that direction. But funny enough, you just mentioned some of the old school terminology like coverage and frequency. Like sometimes if we look at competitors' plans these, these basic metrics aren't there anymore, and we're kind of like, there's still value in those metrics-
Speaker 1: Right
Speaker 2: ... um, in understanding what we're doing and comparing, so we're just making sure we keep all of that learnings that we had from 20, 30 years ago and how we were doing things then, just keep making sure that that's still instilled now but relevant to the new world.
Speaker 1: Yep. The goal's to still the same, the way we get there just changes, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1: And when you, when you're having kind of conversations with brands and marketers, media planners kind of, you know, from, from the kinda client side, sort of typically kind of how, you know, how does that kind of conversation go in terms of setting up the brief from the outset?
Speaker 2: I think here now space, it, it, it's making sure that we have a brief and that the client really does understand what their objective is. We can often get to the point where we might be briefed on an awareness piece, a mass awareness piece, but then when we start implementing it, they're like, "Oh, but the engagement metrics aren't where they need to be." Um, um, and then we have to go kind of back to the beginning of the process in terms of, well, this, this is where we wanted to land. So I think it's just making sure that everyone is really clear upfront what is the main objective for the work we're doing, um, and that we're all on the same page with that and signing off on that 'cause otherwise we get halfway down the line, half the budget's spent, and suddenly the benchmarks are, are moving and changing, um, which isn't gonna be good for anyone. So, um, I think, I think just making sure upfront things are really, really clear, and I think, I think that goes across the whole market, not just what we're doing.
Speaker 1: Take-- Talk me through perhaps, you know, some of the kind of the, the, the work, you know, that's going through right now that, that you're kinda most excited or proud about.
Speaker 2: I think for us, 'cause we've just launched in North America, I think it's really when we can do those truly global pieces. Um-
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: .. and I think obviously that allows us to access bigger budgets and do better things. So, um, I think that's what's exciting me right now. And I think as well we, we historically have been known for kind of having agency firsts and things that other agencies don't have as part of their deals, and I'm quite excited to see how we activate that on a global level now we have the North American presence. Um, so without giving away any client confidentiality, I think, I think that's, that's probably what excites me the most at the moment, and I think that should excite our clients as well because, um, it, it can be a struggle. When we're just talking about UK or just talking about EMEA, the budgets, they, they can be tight and it restricts us to just doing the traditional things we would do. Um, I think if we can start having those, um, conversations across Asia and North America where the head offices are, I, I think that's gonna help facilitate, uh, bigger and better thinking.
Speaker 1: And what sort of insights kind of are you picking up, you know, when you look at it from kind of more of a kind of a global perspective rather than-
Speaker 2: Yes
Speaker 1: ... to the UK/EMEA?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, I think, um, you have to be really careful 'cause when you go in with a global approach, there is no one size fits all. So we call it glocal, so having that-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... local on the ground knowledge but still being able to use a strategy that kind of fits for everyone. Um, I think the biggest thing we've seen across the MEA is probably, um, harping back to the linear TV point, I think it's just the, the timeline of transition for children into the more digital sphere. So, um, I think we saw, saw North America go through that, UK weren't far behind, um, and then I think the rest of Europe has taken a little bit more time to catch up. But we've actually used that to our benefit because we'd been on that journey up to COVID, so when they started going through that journey, we already had learned all the lessons, so we were enabled then to apply that, um, to our clients within the EMEA sphere
Speaker 1: We've touched on it already, and let's sort of go a little bit more sort of deep, I suppose, into it. But, you know, the social media ban in the UK, Australia, you know, kind of seems to be kind of permeating, you know, pretty much kind of, you know, around the world. We'll see what happens in the US.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh, but, you know, marketing to children, young people, families naturally comes with greater responsibility. There's all sorts of kind of regulatory challenges and so forth. How do you kinda get that balance right between, you know, uh, effectiveness and, and doing the right thing?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think... I mean, brand safety is so high up our agenda. We work with, um ... I mean, YouTube's a great example of this, isn't it? And-
Speaker 1: Yep
Speaker 2: ... and somewhere we heavily invest. And I think we, we make sure we test all routes to market, um, and ensuring that we have partners that are brand safe, that they understand COPPA, GDPR, to ensure that our brands are appearing in the right place. And I think from a targeting perspective, obviously, we have limitations in terms of tracking first party data, things like that. But w- what, what that allows us to do is be more creative from a contextual targeting perspective to reach those audiences. Um, so it, it, it is obviously more of a challenge, but I think that, that challenge makes us actually think deeper a- about what we're doing.
Speaker 1: So what role does trust play in long term brand building and families?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think the, the Advertising Association, who we're involved with, um, do a lot of, uh, research into trust in advertising, which is a, a long term piece that they've been investing in. Um, and I think what they're generally seeing is particularly at the younger end, there's an erosion of trust in advertising, which causes two challenges. One, the skepticism that will come with that in terms of the audiences consuming what we're putting out there. But also secondly, trying to attract the best talent into the market, uh, making an industry that people actually want to still be part of is really important and something that we often discuss, particularly, um, within my role on the IPA council. It's, it's a big topic of conversation.
Speaker 1: Let's talk a little bit about sort of you and leading kind of, uh, Generation Media as MD. You've, you've been sort of doing that for a decade. When you first became managing director, what kind of business did you wanna build?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So one of the first tasks I was given by our CEO, uh, was to, to think about the culture and, and what we wanted to build for the future. At the time, we were only kind of four people, um, which obviously that culture just naturally develops itself. Um, but over time, we've had to focus in a lot more about what are our values, how do we want our people to behave, how do we want to be seen. Um, and I think my personal passion point is kind of training and development and seeing the impact that that's had for me in my own career, and making sure we give our talent the best access to be able to develop their careers and accelerate their growth. Um, so we've really become known, I think, as a center of excellence for that young talent development. Uh, it comes with its own challenges 'cause people obviously then wanna come after and poach, uh, your team, but we've got some good, uh, stories of people leaving and then coming back and bringing that knowledge back in, which is, is always nice. Um, and I think, yeah, th- the training and development piece is really the core of our culture, and that's recognized by our CPD Platinum, which I think we've had for nearly 10 years now. Um, it's... We've got Sunday Times Best Place To Work, Campaign Best Places To Work, um, Investors In People, which is a, is a very rigorous process. I think we got Silver on our first assessment, which only 5% of businesses get, and we've elevated that to Gold through the consultancy that they offer. So I think it's really important that we just keep those measurements and metrics there to ensure as we grow as a team, I think we're, we're 60 plus people at this point in time, but as that grows, we want, we want to keep that culture alive and all of those great things that we've achieved now keep going even if we get bigger.
Speaker 1: And how has your leadership, um, style sort of evolved over time?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I think, I think just over time, obviously, as everyone experiences a great thing, you learn from making mistakes. Um, I think the important thing is making sure you reflect to, to get things right. Um, I'm a very strong red, so directive leader. Um, but obviously the skill is trying to lean into those other sides that aren't necessarily your, your strongest suits, but actually learning to lean into those more, and I think that's really where my coaching degree has helped me. Um, so just understanding m- more and thinking more about the other individual and what they need out of a situation and, and some of the skills I picked up through that process, like unconditional positive regard, active listening, um, I think curiosity, I think they're all skills not... that just serve me well as a leader, but actually served me well in terms of doing my job, um, as a, a media professional as well.
Speaker 1: I'd love to l- hear a little bit more about that. Sort of how, you know, kind of after becoming kind of qualified, has coaching influenced the way that you develop people?
Speaker 2: I think it's going from that directive style where you're telling people what to do, to empowering them, um, to make the decisions. Obviously, when, when you have a team of 10 or 20, it's very easy to control every element and dictate what's happening. What I've had to adjust to over time is moving to a team of more sort of 50 plus, is, is that it's about empowering those individuals to get the job done in a, in a way and a style that they'll do it. And I hate to admit it, but sometimes they do it better than you would. So um, I think, I think it's just that learning curve of, of giving them that reign and then seeing what they achieve and thinking, "Okay, they've got this. They don't need me in that area." And then refocusing, okay, what does the business need from me?
Speaker 1: And in a world, you know, of increasing kind of AI and automation, sort of what human qualities do you value the most in your team?
Speaker 2: Think when we're recruiting, it's not really about the technical skills anymore. It's about people who are passionate, keen, reliable. The rest we can pretty much teach if they have that. Um, so I, I think, I think that's interesting for us. And I think as well, being a specialist, I think that passion for what you do in terms of the audiences we speak to is really important and, um, I, I love it, particularly on the video gaming side because we have people that are, are, are so truly immersed in that market, and I think that allows them, in some ways, to do a better job for their client base, the fact that they have that deeper level of understanding, uh, of what the consumer wants because they are one
Speaker 1: You touched on this already, but I just wanna kind of go a little bit deeper, I think. It's, you know, really fascinated by the fact that y- you know, you're employee owned, and, uh, yeah, how kind of now, you know, are you able to kind of see how that sort of changed the kinda culture of the business?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, becoming an EOT, there's no rule book for it, so it is kind of again a learning and discovery process. I think, uh, we were November '24, so w- we're, um, coming up to a couple of years into that process. I think the main thing is, is making sure that the team have a voice, um, and a say in how we're doing things. Um, but I think it also comes with a responsibility because, um, I think it, it, it's tempting because they're employee owners to share more than you traditionally would with your team, but we have a responsibility to ensure we're not overloading them or not concerning them with things that, uh, that they don't need to be thinking or worrying about, so that they can focus on the job in hand. So I think it's just learning to get that balance right between sharing more, more than a traditional business would, but not oversharing to the point people are distracted, um, by what's going on.
Speaker 1: And what do you think kind of other agencies or even brands could, could learn from that experience?
Speaker 2: I think just listening to your people. Um, they're the engine room of your business. They're the ones that are on the frontline delivering. Um, and I think just making sure that we're listening, that we give them a voice, and listen and act upon what they say. We can't do everything that's asked for, and we're a commercial business still, but, but we will try our best and, and h- and, and I think for them, commercial awareness of explaining if we can't do something, why we can't do it.
Speaker 1: You plotted kind of already an, an amazing kind of journey so far, and you've kind of dropped some, some really kind of exciting kind of nuggets of, of where next. But let's talk a little bit more about kind of what the, the next chapter kinda looks like. When you look ahead over the next sort of five years, what excites you the most about the future, you know, of marketing kind of children, young people, and families?
Speaker 2: I guess just the fact that it's only gonna get more challenging, which, uh, keeps us all on our toes and keeps us all learning. Um, I think personally for us as a business, we acquired a creative agency last summer. Uh, we, we had launched in North America, um, earlier this year. Um, we've got more plans in terms of international growth, so I think seeing how the business develops in those areas and how that changes the conversation that we're having with clients from a, a more local level conversation to a global level conversation, I think, I think that's what I'm really excited for for us, and, and a more connected conversation. I mean, when, when we bought, um, Portal Studio last year, their, their kinda slogan is, "Creative that performs," and I think what I've loved about the acquisition is we can now actually underpin that with something because we're linking it to the media metrics. So it's actually a really easy conversation with client to say, "Okay, this is what you're currently putting out there. If we do this, this, this, let's see what return we can get from these small tweaks." And that, that makes it a really easy conversation to draw them in to a more connected offering.
Speaker 1: You've talked about sort of the US, you've talked about sort of, you know, the, the shift towards kind of, you know, um, sort of, you know, kind of g- generation agnostic, kind of, you know, sec- verticals and sectors and markets like gaming and so on.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: What opportunities do you think that, that, that are emerging that sort of marketeers, you know, haven't... and you perhaps as well, haven't fully kind of recognized yet?
Speaker 2: Think for me, I think looking at that older segment-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ...and the, the spending power as we all know is so high there, and I, I think there is a bit of an underrepresentation. Um, I think as well, going back to what we were talking about, kind of the old school metrics, and, like, there is still a place for linear TV or the old school metrics with those audiences. So let's not lose all those skills. Let's think a way we can still monetize those skills, um, whilst we still have them. So I, I think, yeah, I think how we evolve that generation by generation piece as, as our audiences evolve and grow up with us, will be really important. And, and it comes down to recruiting the right people a- and, and having those specialists come in so that, that you, you have permission to, to talk about those audiences.
Speaker 1: And if you were giving one piece of advice to aspiring agency leaders building businesses today, what would it be?
Speaker 2: Gosh. I think not to get in the weeds. I think we all get busy day to day, and I think you just gotta trust your teams to do the best job possible, incentivize them, empower them to do the best job possible so that you can be thinking at a macro level and thinking ahead at what's coming down the road. Um, I, I don't ... I, I'm not saying I'm a master of this, but it's something I challenge myself on every day to make sure, um, and reflecting, okay, where are we currently at? Um, am I, am I operating in the right areas, or, or do I need to rethink what I'm doing? And, and that's a daily, weekly process for me, that reflection process.
Speaker 1: Lisa, it's been a fascinating conversation. Thank you for joining us on The Business of Marketing.
Speaker 2: It's been amazing. Thank you for having me.