The Brand Filter

Speaker 1: Welcome to the Business Marketing. My name is Justin Cook. Uh, Kate is the chief brand officer of PMI WW Brands LLC, Stanley 1913, now known forevermore as Stanley.

Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 1: Uh, welcome to the show.

Speaker 2: Thank you for having me.

Speaker 1: So why don't we kick off with you telling me a little bit about sort of what you do and, and why you do it?

Speaker 2: Yes. Well, I'm very passionate about what I do. I love storytelling. I love connecting people and products. I'm very, very passionate about the brand that I work for at the moment. I'll tell you a little bit why. Uh, the role of chief brand officer at Stanley has a pretty broad remit. We have a belief that connecting the dots across lots of different touchpoints for consumers is important, and so I'm responsible for consumer insights and research. I'm responsible for all facets of marketing, merchandising, product creation, product design, creative product innovation, and also transformation.

Speaker 1: I'm really excited about this conversation because I think y- you are a, a living, breathing kind of example of a phenomena.

Speaker 2: Why so? That's a big word.

Speaker 1: Well, it is, but I think it's... You, you have... You know, as a brand, you know, it... You- you've just sort of, um, reinvented yourself-

Speaker 2: Yes

Speaker 1: ... and become, in a good way, sort of, um, part of culture.

Speaker 2: Yep.

Speaker 1: And, and I wanna really dig into kind of, you know, how a- and what that means, I suppose, in a sense. But 'cause you've been, been making the same thing since 1913-

Speaker 2: Yes

Speaker 1: ... like, as per, as per the, the numbers. But when you took the job, what did you decide was sort of untouchable and what was fair game?

Speaker 2: Well, it's the reason that I joined Stanley. Um, one of my teammates called me, I was consulting at the time, and he called me and said, "We need some help. We need to stand up and professionalize the marketing organization." And as soon as I got into the company, I was struck by two things. One, just the phenomenal opportunity to reset and reimagine what the brand stands for, respecting the origins and the DNA. And two, was just the people there are... They're, they're incredible. Um, a bunch of people that are wildly curious, that don't really take no for an answer, and also see that same opportunity. So thinking about what's untouchful and, um, what we went after, we set about, as one of the first priorities, to create updated brand foundations. I think Stanley has gone through many iterations and is embedded in predominantly the American psyche in different ways. Uh, you might have a grandfather who used the, the very iconic, um, green, hammer tone green flask. You might have, um, a mom who's heavily into fitness and wellbeing who uses the Stanley Quencher. You might know Stanley from, you know, the, the kind of iconic story of how it was founded and the inventiveness that is really inherent in the brand. So when we surveyed people, we realized there's a lot of people that have wonderful heartfelt feelings about the brand, but they're very different. And so we set about asking ourselves, "What do we want it to be in the future?" We took parts of those DNA, especially, like, the heritage, and decided we will make that a much more meaningful part of our storytelling going forward. We did not realize how important it is for younger consumers to understand a brand's origin story. We thought that they didn't care, and I'm talking about Gen Z, Gen Alpha. I had an assumption, and the assumption was wrong, and I'm so happy that I was wrong. So we will tell deeper, more impactful stories about that heritage and the brand truths that come, come from that. What we changed is we realized that there are whole swaths of consumers that know us but don't know what we stand for, and so we have a much more inclusive approach to consumer segmentation now.

Speaker 1: I love the fact that sort of the, the brand is then, and its values and what you stand for, is then transcending into your storytelling and, and how you take the, the, the business to market.

Speaker 2: Yes. We do. We invest a lot in, um, sort of brand level storytelling and, um, I, I would say one other element that we've changed is being... taking ourselves less seriously, having a bit more fun with it, a bit more risky with creativity. Um, and I think that's a really exciting place to be, you know, embracing that you can test and learn and iterate because of social media, because of the technology that we have at our fingertips, and I think that also means that we're having a lot of fun doing it, which is great.

Speaker 1: Uh, and I think if you're having fun, then that kind of then, again, you know, transcends itself into the, the product and into the storytelling and the marketing, right? It's, it's that through line that's really interesting. What I wanna do is just go back to the, the, the heri- the heritage side-

Speaker 2: Yes

Speaker 1: ... of things, I think, just for a second. So, you know, 'cause I, I think you, you have this kind of longevity, um, sort of aspect, you know. I see you as kind of, you know... You, you're thinking about sort of brand building for the next hundred years, kind of, uh. How does that sort of change, you know, the decisions that you're making this quarter?

Speaker 2: I mean, we do- we have very, very firm, um, brand truths, and we use them as a filter in all decisions. And-

Speaker 1: Give me an example

Speaker 2: ... uh, so the, the brand truths are quality, sustainability, originality, and inventiveness. And if we have marketing content, campaigns, ideas that are not uplifting that and speaking to it, then we have to ask ourselves why we're doing it. It helps us with partnerships, it helps us with creators. Uh, it... We, we really put that at the heart of, of what we do, and it's, it's inherent to who we are. Like, not many people are aware that Stanley has unparalleled quality in the products that we create. And whether that quality is durability, um, the fact that we use recycled stainless steel in all of our products, uh, whether it is, um, the thermal promise, how hot or how cold it stays, that is, you know, we have to be really focused on that. We need to tell people about that. People know who we are. They don't often know, like, what is at the core of what makes our products so wonderful.

Speaker 1: And when you're operating in a business that has that sort of mindset, do you ever get sort of pushback when you're looking to kinda change something? And, and, and, and what and how do you kind of win that argument?

Speaker 2: Yes. I mean, the tension between the commercial business and the brand makes you better, and I don't really think of it so much as, like, winning an argument-

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

Speaker 2: ... necessarily. Um, we still, you know, we have to be accountable to-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... our objectives, and most of them are pretty hard measurable objectives that relate to growth and, and profitability. Uh, and I think we have a great organization and a leadership team that understand what long-term brand building leads to. So I don't think I have to arm wrestle too many people. I mean, I have a phenomenal CFO that s- I haven't had any examples of things that I've asked for that we haven't been able to achieve.

Speaker 1: Tell me a little bit about the relationship between brand and product.

Speaker 2: Yeah. Uh, well, I love it. I've worked in that structure in other brands that I've, that I've-

Speaker 1: You were Adidas, right?

Speaker 2: Yes, I was.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: I spent a long time in my career working for Adidas, and I had the same structure there where I was responsible for categories and products as well as marketing and brand building. And what I love about it is it allows you to take a really sharp consumer insight and pull it through with absolute fidelity across all the different ways that a consumer can interact with your brand. So when our team are thinking about how they're gonna tell a story about a new product, how they're gonna use channels and, you know, different ways to engage with people, they're deeply embedded in the product brief and the engineering and the innovation that went into that product, and I think it shows up in the work.

Speaker 1: I love that. Tell me a little bit more about sort of y- you know, marketing, because you're so, you're so connected to your, your, you know, your audience, your customers, immersed. How does that feed back into kind of product?

Speaker 2: Yes, great question. Uh, we have invested a lot over the past six to 12 months, probably the last couple of years actually. We've invested a lot into how we can listen more acutely and more frequently, actually, like, around the clock. So whether that be through technology and the way that we can, um, pull, use AI to pull and aggregate information back into the organization, um, a huge part of it is social listening. We have, like, the most engaged fans, and, um, that social listening, because we're one organization, we're very quick to just funnel that info straight back into the innovation team, the design team, the marketing team. Everybody has the same information at the same time. Where we need to be ruthlessly focused is what do we do about it? Because if everybody gets the same insight, but we're all interpreting it and actioning it in a different way, um, then things can get fragmented. So I would say we are, um, high-touch communication across the teams internally, making sure that every action has, like, a really clear insight behind it, and then building an organization that has the resources to be responsive. So of course, like everybody, we have clear plans. We have clear, you know, a three-year plan, an annual plan, but the best laid plans, you know. It's... We know things change all the time, and it's our responsibility to respond at the speed of culture. And, um, yeah, that, that takes investment. That takes a team who have the agility and the space to actually respond to what's happening in culture. Um, and so that balance of having really firm plan, really deep brand foundations that everybody's on the same page of, like, what we stand for, how we come across to our consumers, and then the flexibility to, like, be agile, move at the speed of culture.

Speaker 1: Yeah, your iconic brand, um, Americana, kind of personified with all of the other values you described, but also a global brand, a global phenomena-

Speaker 2: Yes

Speaker 1: ... with its own sort of cultural nuance. How do you marry those, those two things?

Speaker 2: Yes. Uh, well, I think we have three really clear, um, growth avenues, let's say. Uh, the first is product diversification, making sure that we're continuing to invest beyond just the category of hydration, which is our, you know- The queen, as we say. Um, but, uh, product diversification, then it is international or kind of market diversification, and, uh, the last is consumer diversification, just making sure that we have that, as I mentioned, very inclusive approach. Um, and I, I would say the global aspect to our brand is strong. We have strong awareness across the board, um, even in markets that we're not present in, you know-

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

Speaker 2: ... where-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... we just ent- entered into India. Um, you know, entering and growing in the Middle East, but the awareness is actually quite good. Um, so it's actually my responsibility to continue to remind the team across all functions that we are a global brand. I think in the past we probably had, um, much more of a leaning towards the US and that sort of Americana history, and that we've got to be more than that, you know? And-

Speaker 1: You, you used the word adaptive, I think, and-

Speaker 2: Exactly

Speaker 1: ... yeah.

Speaker 2: So even just over the past two years, we shifted our consumer insight model to be across seven key markets, um, globally so that we are getting-

Speaker 1: Can you share the, can you share the seven? 'Cause I think people would find that fascinating.

Speaker 2: Um, yeah, so-

Speaker 1: The process you went through to kind of get it down to seven even, you know?

Speaker 2: Yes. So we have, um, we survey every single week in those seven-

Speaker 1: Amazing

Speaker 2: ... um, countries. So it i- Let me see if I can get it right. We've added a few. So it's the US, um, Brazil, Japan, China, sorry, Germany, France, UK.

Speaker 1: That's seven, I think. I'm counting on my fingers, but maybe-

Speaker 2: I think it's also Kor- um, South Korea.

Speaker 1: Sorry to put you on the spot, but I think it's just fascinating. I think people are gonna... That's gold dust-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... in itself, right?

Speaker 2: And we also, you know, we have other, um, obviously with digital tools, we can-

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

Speaker 2: ... mine all kinds of data and insights, but high touch consumer surveys, understanding where does our brand have momentum, how are our competitors, um, acting and being perceived in those markets. We measure for specific brand perceptions. Um, so I think that is helping to shift the internal perception and helping to shift people's focus that while we have this incredible beachhead business in the US, we're a global brand, and we have clear priorities of, like, which markets we're growing into next. Um, but it has to come from those nuanced understandings of what, you know, the way people are drinking beverages in Seoul is completely different to the way they're drinking beverages in Sydney. Um, and we need to understand that and act on it. Um, and I think we've had some phenomenal success, for example, with Mate. Um, that's probably a great example-

Speaker 1: Hmm

Speaker 2: ... of where we've taken a very regional insight-

Speaker 1: Wow

Speaker 2: ... from our business in Latin America. We've seen it start to grow in, uh, in the US, and because we have so much authenticity and authority in that space built from our Latin America business, um, we now have a burgeoning business in Mate in the US.

Speaker 1: That's incredible. I love it. It's going the other way.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: I think everyone probably knows the story, right, you know, of, of, of Stanley in, in many ways. Um, but, but sort of I, I want to just sort of get your perspective on how and what happens when d- you know, a phenomena occurs and demand runs ahead effectively of, of, you know, and it's taking off faster than-

Speaker 2: Yes

Speaker 1: ... anyone can kind of possibly... I'm sure you did plan for it, but, uh, but sort of take me through kind of like what it's like, you know, uh, you know, to have gone through that, that sort of, um, from a marketing and brand perspective.

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, um, prior to me joining Stanley, um, the team there 10x'd the business in about four years. And I think, you know, we like to say scale can break everything. Um, and I think when you're going through that type of hypergrowth, when you have multiple products that are viral, um, and far, as you said, far outpacing, um, the demand that you thought you would have, people are just hanging on for dear life and, um, trying to meet the demand. And so the last couple of years we've spent a lot of time and energy investing into and re-engineering processes, talent and capabilities, uh, and tools to make sure that we can keep up with those viral moments when they happen. And we're pretty dang fortunate that they have happened, um, multiple times, and we've adjusted and learned how to not have friction with our consumers when it happens. Um, most of us in marketing think about how are we getting people engaged and motivated and inspired behind our products and brands. We've had the opposite problem where we've got a lot of very inspired consumers, and we can't meet the demand that they're, that they're signaling to us. So big investment into how we, um, build the organization to be able to meet that. And, um, yeah, we, we continuing to keep the consumer insights top of mind and creativity, making sure that our innovation and creativity in product and in marketing and in storytelling is really at the forefront of what we do. That's what's keeping that whole ecosystem going.

Speaker 1: I love the point about creativity. I want you to tell me more about how you do that.

Speaker 2: I think in this moment where technology and AI is giving us this plethora of data, uh, it's important that we keep humanity, creativity, intuition, that that still has a seat at the table. Um, and so we have very, very talented internal creatives, whether it be in innovation, um, engineering, product design, or creative, brand creative. And I make it a priority that they are elevated in the organization, that their voices are equal to the discussions we have about return on investments, the discussions we have about how technology is advancing us forward. Um, and as I said earlier, like have fun with it. Don't take yourself too seriously. That's what people want. Life is hard. We're not here to like only, you know, sell things and instruct people. We also wanna have a bit of a wink and a laugh at it.

Speaker 1: Have fun, as you said earlier.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: That's really interesting. It sort of, it's linked to my next question, which is so much of what you do is around sort of just really subtle nuanced kind of cultural collaborations, innovations.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: You know, um, how do you decide which of those strengthen Stanley for the long term and, and, and which are just, you know, here today, gone tomorrow?

Speaker 2: Oh, good question. I mean, I, I can't say there's a formula. I can't say we always get it right.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: We don't. Uh, but we are, we're willing to, to give it a try, you know? And, um, we definitely have an approach when it comes to like brand partnerships as an example, that we try to seek out people who organically already have a connection with Stanley.

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: So Leo Messi's probably a great example. When we started investing into sport, we found out that Messi had been using, um, him and his family had been using our Mate products since he was about nine years old, and loves them. So what a wonderful opportunity that developed into a multi-year relationship that gave us exposure and visibility we could only dream of, like Messi's Instagram account. Pretty wild. Um, but it was organic, you know? We-

Speaker 1: Grounded in au- in authenticity-

Speaker 2: Exactly

Speaker 1: ... as you said earlier, right?

Speaker 2: Exactly. And so I think the, the campaigns that we created, the storytelling we did, I think it had a level of authenticity in it, and it developed trust with people that didn't feel transactional. It didn't feel like a pay to play kind of relationship, and we've done that multiple times now. Uh, and as I said, it's not like we get it right every time because culture is like constantly moving and, um, but yeah, like just the, the n- the way of listening, seeking to understand-

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

Speaker 2: ... what's happening and why people care about it, and having an authentic connection to Stanley. They're the sort of the very important factors for us.

Speaker 1: I mean, it sounds like you have a really, you know, clearly very, very strong kind of, you know, direction, huge values that kind of underpin the decision-making. Um, you know, a brilliant way of kind of, you know, immersing yourself into culture. But also found sounds like you have this kind of mentality of like testing and learning and-

Speaker 2: Yes

Speaker 1: ... tell me more about that.

Speaker 2: Uh, you know, it's a mindset. We, we invest in talent that have not only the functional capabilities and, and skills that build our business, but also have a mindset of, um, high levels of collaboration and showcase the behaviors that they're okay, that they're not risk-averse, that they're willing to try and fail and, and go at it again. And because we're a relatively small organization, I think we can, we can filter for that, if you like, for that mindset and that agility. Uh, which maybe if you're in a larger organization, that could be challenging to, to kind of scale, but we're still at that stage where we can do it. And um, as I said, the, the Bear Force, as we call the, the Stanley employee group, they are a very unique group of people that I feel absolutely privileged to work with every day, and they showcase that mindset all the time. Um, so do the leadership team. It's a, yeah, constant test, learn, test, learn, find out what works, move on quickly from things that don't work.

Speaker 1: I was thinking about like two sort of ways in which I could kind of ask you about AI. Um, and the first one is, and I don't wanna just talk about buzzwords, you know, I, I really wanna kinda get more into it. How people are finding and buying things now is so, so radically changing-

Speaker 2: Truly

Speaker 1: ... in real time, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: What are you seeing in how people are finding Stanley now compared with maybe, you know, a couple years ago?

Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, I don't think I can tell you anything, Justin, that anybody else hasn't already told you.

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: That yes, the landscape is vastly different, that people are using, whether it's ChatGPT or whatever the, the platform is to search now, and it means that the way we generate interest and have visibility in the brand has also shifted.

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: Um, so for an example, I would say that long-form content was not really that important to us, I don't know, 12 months ago-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... two years ago. But now it represents such a huge opportunity not only for consumers to engage in, but for us to show up in a different way in new search platforms. So- I don't know. It's a lot of... There are a lot of buzzwords, there are a lot of, like, conversations about how radically AI is transforming every business. In the marketing and creative space, yes, super useful in terms of data analysis, personalization, but there are also other areas where we'll see-

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

Speaker 2: ... how big the impact is, and it certainly doesn't negate the need for really strong point of view on creativity. Um, the human insight and governance, um, is really important. And just the last thing that I would say is, like, at the heart of marketing, I think, is empathy. You know, how can I think about what you need, what you're feeling-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... how something makes you feel, and it can't replace that.

Speaker 1: No way. I agree. And you get that right, everything else follows.

Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 1: The second one is that yesterday I was chatting to Unilever and, and it's my own... You know, every day is a school day, right, at the moment, for me anyway. Um, and, and they were talking about their, their brand DNAi.

Speaker 2: Hmm.

Speaker 1: And I was like, "That's the first time I've heard that phrase."

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: And-

Speaker 2: Nice. I like it

Speaker 1: ... yeah. And I just wondered, everything we've been talking about, you know, right up to this point and, and the role that you have, uh, what's your take on, on that as a phrase? What do you think that means and...

Speaker 2: I mean, I appreciate the fact that it's, um, indicating how important and ubiquitous it is. Um, I appreciate that it indicates everyone in the company is responsible to own how AI is integrated. Um, yeah, and I think most of my peers and my teammates at Stanley, we feel the same way. Um, yeah, it's a, it's a cute, cute idea they have. I like it.

Speaker 1: How much of all of this change that we're seeing is then changing how you and the team i- is working?

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, we're, we're definitely, you know, are recruiting and hiring for people that have a mindset, an attitude, and a skill set that can help integrate AI into the organization across all functions. Um, we haven't seen... I think there's a lot in the media about jobs going away, jobs being replaced. We don't experience that. We experience that different functions are operating differently together, and so I think we'll probably see some changes in the structure and the organizational design going forward. Um, yeah, I... Beyond that, I would say we're still in growth mode and-

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

Speaker 2: ... in learning mode about how and where to adopt AI and be effective and manage the cost of it, and all of those good things. Um, maintain trust, uh, with our employees and our consumers. Um, yeah, but I, I wouldn't say that it has, like, turned anything on its head yet.

Speaker 1: No. It's, it's really interesting what you said there as well around growth mode because I, I was chatting to Carolyn Everson yesterday. She's on the board at Coke and Undrama and, and various others, former Meta, and she was asked, she was a- she was talking about sort of, you know, AI and, and, and, you know, jobs and efficiency and so on and so forth, and she's like, "The boards I'm on, we talk about growth," and it's, it's, it's, it's... You know, that's what we're focused on. We're not focused on jobs and efficiency and so forth, right? Come to me with growth.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Come to me with... You know, and I, and I thought that was, that was really refreshing-

Speaker 2: Totally

Speaker 1: ... to kind of hear sort of, you know, that being said. When you talked about sort of organizational changes and shifting, what are you, what are you seeing kind of in the, in, you know, specifically in the, in, in your teams, in, in your, your departments, uh, when it comes to the shifts that we're making? You know, they may be just incremental, but it's just really interesting kind of, you know, it's October 26, where are we right now kind of thing.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I would say the, um, some of the opportunities that we've seen so far are the connection between our merchandising team, our buying teams, and our sort of media, media teams, that we can be much faster and much-

Speaker 1: Mm

Speaker 2: ... more agile at changing our merchandising strategy, our assortment strategy based on what we're learning on engagement through media platforms and channels.

Speaker 1: Can you-

Speaker 2: So that's one example-

Speaker 1: Oh, I love that one

Speaker 2: ... where previously you would have merchandising as quite a separate-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... organizational arm, and then you would have traditional marketing functions and then buying functions. We are exploring what that could look like in the future to bring pods together that have access to some pretty incredible real time, um, information about engagement and interest and just changing in real time their approach. And I don't mean... I mean, of course, we've all been doing that forever on DTC-

Speaker 1: Mm

Speaker 2: ... just like optimizing the way we think about merchandising. This is slightly different because it's, it's leading indicators from marketing channels that then have a big influence into how we create and assort our product approach.

Speaker 1: Can you give me any sense of the quantum of that change? Like, uh, you know, what you can talk about in terms of, you know, the sp- how fast have you got? You know, whether that's percentage or, or actual days, weeks, months, whatever.

Speaker 2: Don't, I don't even know how to quantify it to be honest.

Speaker 1: Is it sort of... No, no, fair enough. I just, it's just I'm fascinated by the whole speed thing.

Speaker 2: Yeah. And, and it's also, I want to be clear, it's, it's exploration.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And- The f- the thing that has to come first is changing behaviors in the organization and changing the mindset to be much more agile, far less precious, and helping people feel okay about that. Because I think when it comes to your annual plan, your quarterly plan, where you sit in the organization, those, those are things that people are like, they're holding onto them. They're, that's a core part of how they're operating every day. So asking them to still respect that but be much more agile takes... It's a different mindset. So I think that's, that's kind of like the first investment.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And it goes back to your question about feeling okay with testing and learning and potentially failing. Um, we've, we've gotta be okay with that. If we, if you really wanna embrace curiosity and change, gotta start with the mindset.

Speaker 1: That's a great link to my next question, which is about the next generation, uh, you know, of leaders and, and where they're, where they're gonna come from.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: What are you seeing in how you as a brand, you know, and the agencies that you work with are kinda hiring, you know, uh, the, the, the kind of the next gen-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... at the moment?

Speaker 2: I love that question because I'm very passionate about it. We have, you know, we're a brand that I think has a lot of connectivity to younger generations, and therefore we attract a lot of early in career talent. And first of all, they have completely different skill set, and that's wonderful. I think many of them are already becoming or already are AI native, and that's great. We want to support and develop them in some, like, personal and professional skills that, uh... I had a laugh with, um, someone in a CMO roundtable earlier today that maybe we need to invest in a finishing school, um, because that's something-

Speaker 1: Mm

Speaker 2: ... that is, like, less evident. And, um, but the skills and the, the capabilities that they're bringing to the table are phenomenal and are changing the way that the entire organization operates and acts. And yeah, so that's, that's a big part of it. I think I also see that in, um, agencies and vendors. Yeah, just, like, inviting more early in career talent, I don't wanna say young because that wouldn't be-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... that's not, that's not the unlock. It's, it's really, like, fresh mindset, new skills and capabilities.

Speaker 1: And it's two way, isn't it, as well, right? Like you said, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a mutual melding, right? It's not one way of, um-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... I think that's, that, that's a recurring theme at the moment, and I think that's really exciting about the way that we're now thinking about the next gen.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Um, and, um, you know, long may that continue.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Um, I'm gonna finish with three quick-fire questions.

Speaker 2: Okay.

Speaker 1: Right? First thing that comes into your head, what's your absolute go-to resource?

Speaker 2: Well, one of them is Siri. I treat Siri like my employee. She helps me a lot, but only the one with the Australian accent.

Speaker 1: Of course.

Speaker 2: Um, husband-

Speaker 1: Okay

Speaker 2: ... also.

Speaker 1: Yeah. In that order?

Speaker 2: Probably.

Speaker 2: Um, no, he's the proudest thing I have about my career, that my, I have a wonderful marriage and he- we're a rock solid team, wonderful resource. And coffee.

Speaker 1: It's a great list.

Speaker 2: They're my, they're my top.

Speaker 1: And maybe you've already answered this question, but it's, it's sort of linked but not. Where do you get your inspiration from?

Speaker 2: Um, I used to work with someone years ago, kind of an old school salesperson, and he used to always say, "The answer's in the streets." And I get a lot of inspiration not from looking at consumer data, but being in the world with high school students, watching people shop, watching people interact. The airport is a big one for me. I love to watch what people are wearing, doing, how they're acting. Yeah, I get a lot of inspiration just from being in the world and sitting quietly and watching.

Speaker 1: That's a great piece of advice. Um, other than Stanley obviously, a brand or business you admire right now and why?

Speaker 2: Well, Justin, I spent so much of my career working in sport, and I am extremely impressed at the work that New Balance is doing at the moment. I think the way that they have invested for the long term in building community around specific sports and the way that they're doing it with, like, panache, um, is very, very inspiring to me.

Speaker 1: Kate, it's been an absolute pleasure. Thank you for joining us-

Speaker 2: Thank you for having me

Speaker 1: ... on Business Marketing.

Speaker 2: Thank you.