The Invisible Career

Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to the Business of Marketing, recorded live at Cannes Lions 2026. Today, I'm delighted to be joined by Sharon Lloyd Barnes, who's the commercial director at the Advertising Association. Sharon, Sharon sits at the intersection of some of the most important conversations shaping our industry today, working across commercial partnerships, industry collaboration, inclusion, responsibility, advocacy, helping ensure advertising continues to create value for business, particularly in the UK, clearly, society and the wider economy. But alongside her role at the AA, Sharon also has been a passionate advocate for great opportunity and inclusion across the industry, including helping launch, um, various kind of campaigns, which we're gonna get into, uh, in this conversation. Sharon, welcome to The Business Marketing.

Speaker 2: Thank you so much for having me.

Speaker 1: So let's talk about sort of, you know, the case for advertising, and it's having... It has an extraordinary impact on businesses, brands, and economic growth, but, you know, from your perspective, what are some of the industry's greatest strengths that perhaps don't get talked about enough?

Speaker 2: Uh, well, that is fundamentally the role of the Ad Association-

Speaker 2: ... where I work, so it's a great first question. Um, I mean, our, our mission is to make the case for responsible advertising, and so, uh, that's talking to, whether it's government or making the, you know, the public aware, and we're all the public as well, of the work we do to make sure our work is trusted, it's inclusive, it's sustainable, and we have programs sort of attached to all of those pieces of work. Um, and, and also, probably most importantly is its huge contribution to the UK economy, um, uh, and job, and job creation. There's a very large number of people. I think it's 18% of the jobs in, in London alone are, are in marketing and advertising.

Speaker 1: That's phenomenal.

Speaker 2: So yeah. So I think there's a lot of things that because it's a very... It's almost like an invisible career. It's never really talked about in school. People don't grow up going, "I wanna work in advertising." Um, I think it's the benefits of it to bus- you know, to the country, to people is, is little known.

Speaker 1: And when you are going through that kind of advocacy kind of route and that marketing, advertising effectively, when you speak to business leaders, and policymakers, and the public, kind of what aspects of, of kind of advertising's contribution sort of resonates most strongly?

Speaker 2: I think it's a social impact. Um, that's where... I mean, great creativity, if we think back to some of the best campaigns over, you know, forever, um, they've been ones that have made us laugh, cry, the fantastic Christmas campaigns, but also those that are really loaded with, with social impact, um, for charities or, or raising awareness about really significant issues. So that's the, the positive stuff that really ha- people hang on and they resonate with.

Speaker 1: And how has the industry's, you know, this world has evolved so much, and, uh, how, how has kind of, you know, your role in that industry evolved over, say, the last 10 years or so? We've gone through these seismic shifts, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. I mean, it's almost unrecognizable from a few years ago. Um, we... Th- the industry's changing shape all the time, and I think that's one of our biggest, um, a- abilities or assets, if you like, is that we, because of our stakeholders, we represent literally every part of the industry. Um, we're sh- we're changing shape and, and along with that pace. So, uh, you know, with the digital transformation, which was the big, I think that was seven years ago that we launched that report, um, which became a sort of government go-to read. You know, it was the digital, digi- can't speak today, digital transformation of the industry over 25 years. L- what's happened in the last seven years with the, uh, you know, in- innovation around AI, it's also post-pandemic, the way that's changed every single business globally. So, um, yeah, that's, that's what we're constantly doing, is just keeping a pace with that.

Speaker 1: And when you sort of look ahead, you know, what opportunities kind of exist for the industry to, to sort of, you know, kind of almost, you know, tell its story more effectively and, and work on some of those areas where there's still gaps, there's still opportunities to kind of realize?

Speaker 2: Uh, well, we've got a, a partnership at the moment, a media partnership with the Times, and, um, over the next sort of 12 months, we are launching, basically every month, a case study where advertising has really grown a business, and it's had really good social impact. It's created jobs in the region, for example. So Curry's was our first, uh, case study, um, with a campaign that it also won the Channel 4 Diversity in Advertising Award, so it was, um, c- they've completely transformed their business to make them more accessible for people with disabilities. Um, and the, the most recent one is, um, a cheese, uh, the Sussex Charmer. So, um, I th- I guess it's showing both ends of the spectrum of big business that's a household name to, to, you know, a game-changing transformation for a smaller independent business. Um, and, and I think that's a great way to tell the story.

Speaker 1: And let's talk about sort of getting that balance between sort of responsibility, impact, and kind of commercial success a bit. Sort of, you know, it's, you know, you've, you- obviously, there's kind of this growing recognition that sort of responsible business practices and commercial success kind of goes hand in hand, right?

Speaker 2: Mm.

Speaker 1: Sort of how do you see that kind of evolving in this space?

Speaker 2: Uh, I think it's becoming a kind of must-have for lots of businesses, but let's face it, it's, it's very competitive.

Speaker 1: Mm.

Speaker 2: I mean, advertising's a competitive business, but with the economic climate globally, um, it's, uh, you know, everyone's trying to steal their market share and, and retain that. So that's the whole point of advertising. It's about selling things, um, and, and growing your business. So that's gonna continue to happen, but we're seeing increasing numbers of businesses recognizing the business pros, if you like, of being more responsible, uh, whether that's being, you know, being really loud about your sustainability story, about your representation and, and your, your DEI efforts. Um, so yeah, I think that's really... It, it's... The, the business is doubling down on that I see, I think is seeing a greater return, and so I could just see more of that.

Speaker 1: And how, you know, kind of are those sort of principles being almost sort of integrated into the businesses' strategies themselves?

Speaker 2: Um, so I can see with things like, businesses like Tesco, so one of the biggest supermarkets, uh, couldn't be a more competitive space. Um, but they've doubled down on inclusion. Um, aga- again, they've just won a, a, an industry award for, um, uh- Their diversity work on the latest campaign. Um, and it's had such a massive impact on their business as well. They've changed, um, their recipe cards, so they've all got them in braille. The ad, I don't know if you've seen it yet, but it's an incredible ad. All of the talent in it have disabilities, um, and they're cooking and, and working from recipe cards from Tesco's, um, with, you know, uh, inclusive gadgets and kitchen utensils. Um, and just really bringing... And all this stuff is amazing 'cause it's inclusive by design-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... so we all benefit from it. Um, but I think it just really is a fantastic example of a business that is striving to retain their top spot in, you know, in that sector, but shouting very loud and proud about what they're doing for, for other communities of people that, that, you know, need more help.

Speaker 1: So much about advertising is, is around, you know, metrics and measurements. So like, you know, when you kind of apply that kind of lens to impact from c- campaigns and, and that sort of more kind of inclusive kind of impactful kind of approach-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... what, what evidence is there to kind of show the benefits?

Speaker 2: Well, there's lots of different measurement for whether it's, um... So if you look at sustainability, for example, we set up Ad Net Zero, which is a great initiative that we launched in 2020 at COP26. Uh, and that's essentially about the ad industry getting its house in order and making sure that the carbon emissions that, you know, come out of our, the work that we create, um, are measured so that we can reduce them and have this sort of focus on, on doing that. Alongside that work, we've got Ad Green, which, which is a ca- calculator for the production of advertising. So if there's a, um, you know, a shoot, a- or, or everything that's part of that, the, the people, the travel, et cetera, um, are loaded into the calculator. So there's, there's lots of work in that area that has tangible... I mean, w- it's got tangible impact on the way that people do things now, um, from, well, certainly from five, 10 years ago, but it's increasingly a, a focus for people.

Speaker 1: Mm. Here we are in Cannes, lucky us. Um-

Speaker 1: It's, you know, clearly, you know, y- y- a UK, a UK sector, but sort of, you know, being here, you, you know, you're banging the drum kind of all over the world in terms of how important is it for you to kind of operate kind of on a global stage and, you know, what's the impact of that?

Speaker 2: It's hugely important. I mean, we are, you know, we punch well above our weight in terms of the scale of our, uh, business, uh, our, our country, s- sorry, I should say. Uh, our exports are huge. We contribute, um, not just creatively on the global stage, you know, the, the number of awards that we, uh, win out here. Um, but we attract talent from all over the world. Our services are sold all over the world. And, uh, the program that we do out here is actually with the Department of Business and Trade, so they recognize that as a sector, if you like advertising, it does sit, you said at the beginning, at th- this sort of intersection-

Speaker 1: Mm

Speaker 2: ... where we sit is, uh, sort of professional services and creative industries. Um, you know, we power up fashion and music and, um, uh, and obviously in the professional services, we're providing a service for businesses. So, um, yeah, it's really-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... important that, that government sort of recognize that and are helping sort of blaze that trail with us as well and make that not just in Cannes, but we're at South by Southwest in Austin, Dubai Expo, Shiaf, et cetera. So wherever there's a global stage for us to shout about what we're doing f- um, as, as the UK, we'll, we'll take that platform.

Speaker 1: You talked about sort of 18%, you know, and sort of way more than just London, but that's a great way of kind of just framing it for me personally, sort of. But let's talk about the kind of industry itself and how you're kind of really thinking about making it more inclusive.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: You know, you, you launched... You helped launch, uh, the All In campaign, you know, from, from concept. Sort of what was the, the problem that you were really looking to try and solve there?

Speaker 2: Well, that was an interesting one because it was basically, there was a lot of noise at the time, so this is sort of 2020, 2019-

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm

Speaker 2: ... um, of businesses that were trying to do the right thing, but just missing the mark. Um, so it was really evident that the people that made those ads a- and actually placed them as well, weren't from the relevant lived experience. So it was really important that we, um... Well, first of all, it's like h- how do you get people to be more representative? And the first stop was we don't actually know who works in the industry. There's lots of anecdotal that we could recruit more diversely, et cetera. Um, but we came up with this census idea of... And, and bearing in mind when we first launched it, it was a year after the, uh, pandemic had... I was gonna say launched. It wasn't a marketing campaign. Um, but so w- we were three lockdowns in, and actually when we, when we ran the survey, it, it was during a lockdown as well. Uh, but we created a bit of a stop the clock moment. We got everybody in the industry to take part, and we had about, um, over 18,000 responses o- on that day. Um, and it just gave us the most phenomenal read of, of who works in advertising, uh, how we all identify, and most importantly, how we feel about where we work. Um, and we do it every two years. We're about to do the fourth iteration next March. I think what's really important about it is it's, it's got an action plan that's baked into the work, so that's part of the campaign. And, uh, we've now got 160, around 160 businesses in the UK have adopted the action plan in their business.

Speaker 1: And skills, you know, and talent and sort of, you know, building a kind of in- inclusive kind of workforce and, and culture, you know, all are kind of very much kind of wrapped together in a way. Sort of, yeah, how and, you know, and why is kind of broadening access to careers in advertising so important for the future success of the industry?

Speaker 2: Well, fundamentally, we have to represent, authentically represent the society we serve. That, that's like-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... number one. And if people don't see themselves represented, then they're not gonna go for that brand or... So, um, it's just really important and, uh, I mean, it's come such a long way if I think about the sort of the, the, the people that were trying to do the right thing but just missed it by the, you know, as I said, by the mark. Um, there's just fantastic examples now. So, uh, and there's industry standards and, and, and awards that recognize them. Like there's me- MEFA, uh, which is Media For All. Um, they have an award every year which recognizes those businesses. Uh, even down to sort of media planning and buying, they're, they're sort of looking at every part for the sort of supply chain, if you like, and, and looking for examples of best practice Um, so and, and the same with, uh, you know, the sustainability work. So, so when, when... 'Cause we love, as a creative industry, we love the awards. As you say, we're here in Cannes celebrating the work. So where you can find a f- a, a forum to celebrate people doing it well, that al- we found as the trade as- association that works so much better than beating people with a stick and, and telling them off.

Speaker 1: Talk a lot about sort of, you know, those that, you know, are not in employment, education, and training.

Speaker 2: Mm.

Speaker 1: You know, just had the Milburn report sort of quite recently. You know, it's despite kind of AI, you know, and, and the, the threat, there's the other side, which is the huge opportunity that it presents for, for this industry too. Critical skills gaps. Sort of, you know, what sort of, you know, when you, when you look at sort of the industry and what you're doing, what, what are some of the most kind of effective approaches you're seeing, you know, to, to... by, by companies, you know, to, to attract and retain and develop kind of talent?

Speaker 2: Um, yeah, re- I mean, because our, our actions, we're eight actions are currently in the, in the plan. They range from supporting Asian talent and Black talent to people with disabilities to older people in the industry.

Speaker 1: Mm.

Speaker 2: Um, and it's very cool to hear back from the businesses that have adopted these and are then being measured, as I say, through award entries or whatever. Um, and we have quite a robust submission process as well. You don't just get gifted this badge. It's, it's, uh, you know, they have to submit what they're doing, and, and it's sort of, um, we, we do it based on that, and it's, it's challenged every year as well to make sure they're still doing it. Um, but yeah, things like... The, uh, one of the best examples I, I liked was our, for Asian talent, our, we, we introduced a guide, and it was sort of under the banner of be curious. So it was finding out more about your colleagues from different, you know, religious backgrounds, cultural backgrounds, understanding different times of the year and why they're more meaningful for them. And as part of it, we introduced a holiday swap so that, you know, if you didn't want to work for Christmas because you don't celebrate Christmas, um, you, you just swapped it for other, um, traditional holidays in your culture. But what we heard from a couple of the businesses that have adopted it, really, uh, this is a few years ago, um, that everybody else was jumping in on that, going, "Well, I actually don't like Christmas. I, you know, I don't spend it with family. I live alone," whatever. "I would much rather get that day back." Um, so it's... That's what I was saying earlier about this inclusive design. The best ideas are always ones that, that benefit everybody, you know.

Speaker 1: Let's talk about sort of, um, how you, I suppose, sort of navigate trying to bring an industry together.

Speaker 2: Yes.

Speaker 1: Um, you know, the, you know, use your convening powers.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: Um, you know, so many different stakeholders. I mean, when you look at the, the ecosystem, it's like, you know, it's, you know, we could spend the rest of this conversation-

Speaker 2: Just listing them

Speaker 1: ... just listing them out, right?

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Sort of thing. And they've all got their own different kind of priority and perspective.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: You know, how do you go about sort of, you know, um, bringing, you know, all of that disparate kind of, uh, cohort together around a sort of shared kind of objective?

Speaker 2: Um, well, first of all, we're sort of pre-competition. So we, we start every council meeting, which is where all of the trade bodies sit. And I mean, it sounds very grand. It sounds quite Hogwarts.

Speaker 2: Um, but we, uh, we start with a compliance statement-

Speaker 1: Right

Speaker 2: ... which is that, you know, this is not about competition. And-

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: What-

Speaker 1: You leave your wands at the door.

Speaker 2: Exactly that. Um, and we create... And this is something we've really seen work very well in the last sort of couple of years. We create forums where we can talk about one single subject, um, and almost, you know, just create that space. It's, it's... And it just works really well. In fact, more recently, we were asking everybody around that table, um, 'cause that's how we physically work it, uh, what is responsible advertising to them? And, and it's just fascinating to get, you know, from a, from a business perspective, what it means for different, um, stakeholders. So that's just very, very helpful in us determining and distilling what, what... As I said earlier, in terms of making sure we're at pace with the industry change, um, and all the opportunities and challenges, it's, it's really vital that we understand them. So it's, it's, um... But yeah, just having one single point of conversation has worked really, really well, and then have a two-hour conversation about it.

Speaker 1: And what have been kind of the results of, uh, of tho- those kind of industry collabs?

Speaker 2: Well, I, I'm always... I mean, we get great feedback from members as well-

Speaker 1: Mm

Speaker 2: ... saying, you know, "Hats off to you for being able to do that."

Speaker 1: Yep.

Speaker 2: Um, because I think from the outside in, I guess people, 'cause they ask the question, it, it must seem almost impossible to achieve that. But there's, you know, everyone's very professional and, uh, I think when you've got a singular goal as well, at the end of the day... You know, going back to our, our mission is, is to make the case for advertising. You know, we need everybody to be part of that, um, that work really. I mean, it doesn't work in isolation. So, um, whether it's tr- I mean, trust is, I should have said earlier, that's, that's our probably our biggest pillar of work. We were founded 100 years ago by two other trade associations, ISBA and the IPA, who, um, are the trade bodies for brands and for agencies respectively, uh, to demonstrate to government in the UK that we are a trusted industry. So, you know, this is what we do, and, uh, it just changes shape all the time, uh, in terms of what that looks like. But we, uh, we measure it, we track it, public sentiment towards advertising. Uh, we've been doing that for years and years now. So we can cut it by, you know, all the demographics to say who's less trusting and more trusting, um, and tailor our, our comms around it, you know? Um, I mean, interestingly, there's some work to do towards people that work in the industry, the younger people that work in the industry, because in the last All In Census, we asked, "Do you think it's a trustworthy industry?" Um, and, you know, a significant, um, minority said, a majority I should say, um, said no. So that's really helpful because you can, uh, that's, that's something that we target rather than focusing all the time on, on the outside in. Um, yeah.

Speaker 1: And is that, do you think, sort of representative of, you know, a, a generation kind of perspective on a previous generation, you know, that sort of seems to kind of transcend every sector and market in some ways? Or do you think that's specifically about sort of advertising? And then if it is, what do we need to do about it?

Speaker 2: Um, I think it's probably slightly generational. It, it does differ from sector-

Speaker 1: Mm

Speaker 2: ... though, and, and roles-

Speaker 1: Got it

Speaker 2: ... within the industry. So, and without breaching any competencies, I won't go into where, but we, but we can target those sectors and say-

Speaker 1: Right

Speaker 2: ... you know. Um, but yeah, I think, I think it's probably a seniority thing as well. I think often, you know, our, our board and council and all of our forums are incredibly senior people. That's, it's the business industry leadership. Um, and I think it's just a comms job in terms of, you know, we've all got responsibility to cascade the brilliant work that the ad industry's doing all of the time to tackle lots of different issues, um, to our wider workforce. I think it's just, you know, the, the knock-on impact of that would be so great in terms of attracting talent, changing the perception of people outside of the industry. Could be politicians, other policy, uh, makers. So, um, yeah, it's just really crucial that we do that, uh, and particularly at a time of really big change.

Speaker 1: And how are you sort of using, sort of, I, I'll use the word technology in a broader sense, I suppose, in a sense, but, you know, digital marketing, whatever you wanna kind of call it, you know, to, to really, I suppose, in a sense of like, uh, scale your impact and a- achieve, you know, your mission kind of more effectively?

Speaker 2: Uh, in terms of AI as a trade body?

Speaker 1: Yeah, as a trade body. Yeah, looking-

Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: No, we, we are, we want to be, you know, um, yeah, sort of really forward-facing with all of that.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: So we're working hard. We've all done training internally. I mean, we're 30 people, 34 people. Um, but yeah, we are working with the big tech companies that sit in our membership to make sure we're a- across sort of best practice. Um, and that's where some of our training came from. Um, and just being... I mean, we do things like Adland Tours where we get MPs, uh, and civil servants to come in and, and just have a kind of behind the curtain look at the ad industry, um, again, to sort of bust some of those myths for them. But we ensure that they're seeing businesses that are kind of at the leading edge of, of innovation. So I guess thinking outside of us and more about the, the industry that we represent, w- that's what we're doing, is sort of making sure we're, we're showing, um... I mean, we've, we've just released a report or published a report about AI best practice across the industry.

Speaker 1: Mm.

Speaker 2: Um, so that's our role really, is to kind of make sure that we're the conduit to all of that.

Speaker 1: Talk a little bit about sort of the commercial kind of perspective. You know, you're a commercial leader. You've got a unique perspective on both the commercial reality and the strategic priorities. You've got to kind of square that circle somewhat, right?

Speaker 1: What insights does that sort of vantage point give you?

Speaker 2: Um, yeah, it's interesting. I mean, uh, yeah, I've worked in much more commercial environments than this. I mean, that, that's the joy of being in a, in a trade body. You, you said the word convening, and I, I think that's the joy of our role. It's a real privilege to be in a position where you are bringing together, and, and, and having a peek yourself at these businesses, you know, um, i- in a way that, that, that other people don't. Um, so yes, on the commercial side of it, it's interesting. I mean, we're a not-for-profit-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... so hence why I say it's the least commercial place I've worked. It's just about making, making sure that we can fund the activity-

Speaker 1: That's what I was-

Speaker 2: ... that we do on behalf-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... of the rest of the industry.

Speaker 1: I think that's what I'm really interested in kind of getting under-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... the skin of. It's just how do you go about doing that? You know, you're really, you've, you've got a really mission-aligned kind of like-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... initiative that you wanna get delivered.

Speaker 2: Yeah.

Speaker 1: How do you go about convening and bringing the industry with you to help you fund the thing?

Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, exactly. I mean, and that, and that's baked into the member value for them.

Speaker 1: Right.

Speaker 2: So it's, they, they know that we can convene very senior people across the whole, um, uh, sort of landscape, if you like. That's what, what we're doing today. It's a couple of events. Um, so the convening part we've kind of got down.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Um, and, and we've got a really high... I mean, we don't have hundreds of members because, you know, we, we've got the kind of leading stakeholders, I guess, in the industry. Um, and very high retention levels, so that's not so much of an issue. Um, but yeah, it's, it, it's always a challenge. I mean, what, what, and, and we've got lots of trade bodies within our membership too.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: And I think what we've all been through since the pandemic is this, after that, you know, massive economic crash, what was it, a year, a year after it, um, is that you, you try to do right by your membership as well.

Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.

Speaker 2: So you support the businesses that are having the tougher times, and, and you ride that storm with them. And I think we've, uh, well, we've done that successfully so far because they're, they're all still there. But, um, that's a very interesting insight, having the relationships with those businesses who kind of mirror what we do. You know, it's a, it's a different ask. Member value for them is different to a commercial business for, um, in terms of what we need to deliver them.

Speaker 1: And to your sort of, you know, retention levels and, and sort of, you know, that long-term kind of view, what, what for you kind of makes, you know, a partnership that lasts, you know, a test of times is successful?

Speaker 2: Well, that's the word, partnership. Anyone that expects us just to deliver, um, I, I, I can't think of an example where that has worked, you know, mutually, uh, for both parties. So, but we're so- we're just really lucky. All of our members lean in. Um, we... Our CEO, Steve, and I were talking recently about- Front Foot. So we, we've got our council, which is all the trade bodies that I mentioned, and all the, the, the, the big broadcast and tech companies. And then Front Foot's a longer network of about 100, 110 businesses, so agencies, both media and creative, brands, all of the key ma- media owners, um, and tech companies. And we like to describe them as the turbocharger of our key work streams. So the people that engage, and the people we're connecting with out here, are those people that really care about the industry beyond their day job. So they might be running a, a media agency, but they see beyond that and, and really, I mean, I say lean in, they give a lot of their time, a lot of, um, services in kind as well. They'll, they'll sort of put strategists on things, or they'll create a creative campaign for us for something that we need to shout about. So, um, yeah, that, that again is the joy of, of having that. S- I think it's a really unique relationship that we've got with our members. It's, it's less about serving them, but more about how can we collaborate to really drive the most impact and change.

Speaker 1: I'm, I'm very, um, grateful that you actually found time for this conversation here in Cannes, 'cause I know how busy you are right now and, you know, engaging with your members. Um, you... I think you've got, like, a, a goodness knows how many events to go to after this.

Speaker 1: But, um, when you're, when you're at those events-

Speaker 2: Mm

Speaker 1: ... um, what, what are the conversations that, that you're having in terms of, you know, what are you hearing, you know, from, from the industry and your members, you know, that, that, that make you think about sort of, you know, what trends are emerging, um, as, as we look forward?

Speaker 2: Uh, well, there's a lot of, you know, embracing AI technology, uh, more and more and more. But also being conscious of the sort of value of human capital. And I think I'm finding that a really interesting conversation, no matter what the business, but particularly agencies, where they're sort of looking at the model again, really. Um, particularly pricing model in terms of, you know, you've got a-

Speaker 1: Yeah

Speaker 2: ... an advertiser or a client saying, "Well, you're doing more and more of that on AI than what..." So, um, so yeah, the, the value of our sort of creative expertise or planning expertise or whatever that happens to be. And I think the, the, the longest-running challenge, I think, has been around people, um, as well as the, the growth and the economic. Um, that's obviously first and foremost for most people. But I, but I think that's a long-lasting impact of the pandemic that I think most businesses are still strugg- struggling to get. Not over, 'cause I think it's, it's been responsible for so many positive changes in terms of flexible, hybrid, uh, working. Um, but like everything, there's, there's balance to those things and there's, there's... there are some cons. And I think we, we have to adjust our behavior to make sure, uh, there's really transparent and better communication, particularly for younger people coming into the industry who've never worked in an office environment before. They don't know the wider industry, so they're going into, you know, John Doe agency and, and, uh, learning not by osmosis anymore, but, but by whatever's put in front of them. And I think that's a real challenge because we, we as more senior people and older people in the industry have to remember we didn't do that. We mustn't be complacent and take for granted that we have to now manage, um, in a very different way, uh, to take account of all of that. So it's not a negative in itself, but I think it's something that the, the industry's still sort of wrestling with as a, as a challenge.

Speaker 1: Yeah. And you've, you've, you've launched a, a relatively new sort of initiative I think with Springpod-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... um, to, to try to address-

Speaker 2: Very excited about

Speaker 1: ... that sort of specific kind of challenge.

Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, that's such a great... We were introduced to, um, the Springpod team a couple of years ago. Normally we work a bit faster on things. Um, but it's... it, it... the timing is what it is, 'cause actually it's, it's the perfect time to be launching it now. A lot... It combines with a lot of other things that we're doing, um, and conversations with DCMS and government. Um, but yeah, it's very exciting. It's a, um, virtual work experience simulation. So we've created two to start with as, as the lo- as the pilot. Uh, one in the creative agency and one with, um, sell side with Bauer Media. And so young people, as young as, um, 13. And what, what I love about it actually, looking at the content and the tone of voice, is it, it was originally for teenagers still at school, but actually it's so appropriate for people, uh, you know, post-grads or university students-

Speaker 1: Brilliant

Speaker 2: ... or, or, or even people from other industries who want to flip.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: You know, come on over. Um, so it's, it's so engaging. It's brilliant. It's got obviously, um, as a business, it's got very compelling case studies of, of its reach and success. And I just think getting... That's one of the big things we found with, with the All In, um, census results, is that we actually had a, a bit of a retention problem. So even though you've got... you've attracted this amazing talent, um, we had a problem keeping a lot of it. Um, and I think the Springpod program will help with career readiness as well. You know, sometimes people go into a job and they go, "I'll, I'll give it a go," and it, it doesn't work out for whatever reason. At least with this you, you've had a, you've had a few modules where you've got an insight into how the people talk and what they do in their day job and, um... 'Cause I'm always struck, we do a, uh, an in-person work experience with the school, uh, down in Canterbury every summer, and I'm always really struck by these are young people who never, would never have come into London on their own before.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Don't have any family network at all. Um, and they're just always really shocked at how informal our industry is because I think they're, you know, told about work as being this, you wear a suit and you... Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Got zero personality. I mean, they all come back talking about the treats in the offices. Like, you know, you can get a Coke or you can get a, a chocolate bar. Um, so we do actually do quite a lot of work, but, but that really- Strikes me as like, like we should be telling this story much more wide. Who doesn't want to work in an environment that's exciting and dynamic and fun, and, you know, has real social impact as well? So that's, that's our job, is to make sure we shout about it.

Speaker 1: I want to just finish off with a little bit about sort of you in the context of kind of leadership and purpose and impact.

Speaker 2: Mm.

Speaker 1: You've been a founder, commercial leader in more commercial environments than the current one, granted.

Speaker 1: Um, and you're a trustee as well. Um, how have those kind of different experiences shaped your leadership style?

Speaker 2: Um, well, it's a good question. I think it's also longevity as well that sort of fed into that, 'cause I think if I'd done all those things at 24, uh... I'd done one of those things at 24, but I think if I had, I s- I s- I think it's life experience as well that, that shapes how you lead. Um, I don't know. I just feel, uh, hopefully I'm, I'm a sponge and I'm still learning from the people that I meet with every day. Um, 'cause again, that privilege of those conversations and getting an insight into how someone runs that agency or that, um, media channel is, is really, really interesting. So I th- I hope I'm learning all the time, and, um, but yeah.

Speaker 1: And what have you learnt about sort of then building strong teams and cultures? We've talked a lot about people and, and talent-

Speaker 2: Yeah

Speaker 1: ... and the importance of that. So what have you learnt about that?

Speaker 2: Um, think communication's really key, and I've said that already. But I, I think we've got... That's one of the downsides, I think, of being quite, uh, you know, moving away from office-based environments where you're working alone for a lot of the time. It's challenging to do a whole day of catching up on emails, doing Teams, Zoom calls, and then communicating what you've done to your colleagues or clients or whatever. Um, so I think that's something collectively we all need to... And, and, and AI is probably, well, is the solution to that. We're already seeing that happening in, in our workplace. So, uh, I'm very excited about that. But, but yeah, you know, I, I, I do also feel passionately about the sort of human side of it all, and the people side of it. So, um, planning quite a few things this year to, to sort of build on that. Um, but, um, yeah, in terms of leadership, I would say, I'd say communication. Um, and, and intuition. I think that's a really key thing for relationship building. Uh, 'cause I, I've always worked in a sales role, and I think pure sales has a terrible reputation, but actually what they don't understand, uh, if people are either scared of it or dismissive of it, is that it is about relationship at its core. And I think to be good at that, um, you have to be quite intuitive.

Speaker 1: I completely agree.

Speaker 1: Really interesting. And when you think about sort of the f- the future of, of, of the Advertising Association and advertising itself, kind of like what excites you the most?

Speaker 2: Uh, that's a really good question. I... There's so many things, 'cause I, I, I see it, I mean, I'm seeing it here.

Speaker 1: Yeah.

Speaker 2: Last week we had a fantastic meeting about something else. We've just launched our new branding for UK, um, advertising growth program, so that's an export, you know, global piece. Um, yeah, I think 'cause there's innovation all the time. We're sort of l- we're surrounded by it, and whether that's tech or creative or in people, I, I, I just, I, I think we are at the forefront of all of that all of the time. Um, so I'm just excited about that. I think the one thing I'd love to do is just have a bit more fun back in the day job. It's... That again is gonna be vital, I think, if we're gonna attract and retain talent long term. Um, you know, and you want, you want to avoid sounding like somebody who's, who's older, but it just used to be so much fun. Um, and we all worked hard, and worked all night a lot of the time on, on pitches and whatever. Um, but I think that's the thing I hear from everybody, no matter what their job, is the overwhelm. I think overwhelm is i- impacting us all, and I think we just need to create a little bit of space to have fun too.

Speaker 1: Great. Final last words.

Speaker 1: Sharon, it's been a pleasure. Thank you for joining us on Business Marketing.

Speaker 2: Thanks so much for having me