Lightly edited for readability. Speaker 1: So I'm delighted to welcome to this episode of The Business of Marketing, recorded live here at Cannes Lions. Katie Mitchell who's the managing director of Seen Studios. Katie, welcome.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: Uh, thanks for joining us. So this is gonna be a conversation about these two worlds which are becoming more and more connected every day, the physical and the d- d- digital. You are, as Seen Studio's MD, leading the charge, and we're gonna get deep into kind of really what that means from a brand, from a consumer kinda perspective. So um, very excited. Um, let's kind of kick things off. So first of all, you've spent years building stores, popups, events for brands that live both online and in the real world, and we'll talk more about that connection in a minute. But let's zero in on the physical. Why, why does the physical w- still matter so much?
Speaker 2: Mm. I think, you know, Cannes' actually a really great example of why the physical works so much. Um, you know, we're here today, or for the week, to essentially really embed and involve and immerse ourselves in these brand worlds. And, you know, that's ultimately what brands should be trying to achieve, right? It's ... We don't wanna be sold anything anymore, and that's actually, you know, something that I've said for quite a while now.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: You know, the people that truly, uh, trust and feel loyal to your brand are people that really understand the product, the benefits, you know, why they feel affinities to them. And actually, what we're creating with physical spaces is this sense of belonging, and I think that's, you know, that's ... As humans, that's what we are always looking for, that sense of belonging, that sense of connectivity. And actually, if brands can do that in a really authentic way, that's half the job done for them. You know, they can then sell a product once they've, they've got that captive audience and it feels really authentic.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Okay.
Speaker 2: So, you know, the, the digital is obviously evermore becoming important, but starting with that physical space and that sense of, you know, being somewhere where you feel understood and you feel like you belong is so, so important. Um-
Speaker 1: Is it?
Speaker 2: Yeah. We, we... Yeah.
Speaker 1: I think, you know, from m- m- my perspective, w- Feels like we're sort of almost entering kind of a new kind of golden age, in a way, of, of, of kind of, um, you know, connected physical spaces, and connected both in terms of the space being digital itself, but also connected to the, the rest of the kind of digital journey. Like, I'd love to kind of hear your take on that, and, and also, I suppose in a sense, the journey that you've seen this world go on, you know, and, and how, you know, it's changed over the last sort of five years or so.
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well, we, you know, we work with brands on the full kinda 360 of what that journey looks like. And actually, what's become really interesting is that it, th- the act- the people that we're talking to in brands has changed. Historically, it might have been a visual partner or a visual director. Now we're talking to media partners, to brand partners, to, you know, heads of digital, to experience leads, and it's because we need to ensure that that connected journey of online to offline is becoming more and more seamlessly. And actually, what works really well is when those teams will work together to create that journey that could be picked up a- at any moment. And when we work with brands, what we say to them is, "You have to consider both audiences." And when we talk about the two audience scenario, it's that online and offline. And what we can do with experiences and spaces is that we can, we can get them to work harder for us. You know, you can create something in the physical that absolutely is working for you online as well, which it's commercial, it's clever, it keeps C-suite happy. Um, and you know, the level of return is so much greater if you can create something in the physical but then kick out those amazing suite of assets or content or, you know, anything that you need to relay that story online, and then that's when you can start opening up conversations about different markets as well, which gets really exciting as well.
Speaker 1: And when a brand says to you, you know, "We want an experience," what separates something that's, you know, really memorable, um, from something that's just basically expensive?
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah. And they can be expensive, can't they?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Um, I, I truly believe, and it's, you know, the, the approach that Scene Studios takes is it's all about starting with the audience. You have to start at where you want to be. So yes, you've got your products and you've got your brand story to tell, but if you don't think about that end audience and understanding them, genuinely understanding them, um, you know, you're not, you're not gonna be able to be successful and you're not gonna come ac- you know, across, um, relevant. You're not gonna come across as a trustworthy brand. So my main takeaway from this is it's all about understanding your audience authentically. You know, do your homework. Can't be lazy. People can sniff, you know, inauthentic, um, storytelling and narratives a mile off. And, you know, brands are getting better at it, and so they have to work harder. Um, there is so much competition in this space, and, you know, people are expecting. They are expecting the brands to show up in a way that speaks to them as a friend would, you know? We, you know, we talk a lot about person- like personifying brands, and if you speak to your audience like they were a person or, you know, a friend, that's when real success comes into play.
Speaker 1: Let's talk about, you know, the sort of your journey a little bit, um, but also running kind of in parallel as to how this world has changed. Yeah, you, you- you've kind of worked in visual merchandising. You know, you've gone t- g- global brand environments As you've gone on that journey, kind of how has your view, kind of as the consumer changed?
Speaker 2: Mm. I think I started my journey very, like, you know, a long time ago actually client side, which was brilliant actually because it, it got me understanding that end user and I was that person. Um, and then I, you know, now growing, um, Seen studios, it kinda makes you realize that what brands need to do is, uh... And a little bit like what I was saying a moment ago, is really hone in on that audience. You can't mass market and expect that one story is gonna speak to everyone. And actually marketing something on the masses markets, you know, markets to nobody. You know, you, you can't do a, a hit all in, within that. So I guess my viewpoint of that client is that they all, you know, whether it's a market, whether it's an age, whether it's a, a certain demographic, you know, whether it's even north of England or south of England, everybody needs to be spoken to within their, their slight nuances. You know, and my heritage is very much, you know, more traditional retail, um, when it comes to window displays or in-store pop-ups, yes, they absolutely speak to our clients and, you know, when you walk down a high street, it makes me so happy to see brands that can do that successfully. But it is, that isn't the moment, that isn't the only moment now that-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... that people are picking brands up. That used to be the magazine cover. If you got your windows right, tick, done.
Speaker 1: Hm.
Speaker 2: But now people are picking brands up at an earlier stage, and it's like, what are those windows doing for you anymore? You know, is it actually a continuation of a journey picked up earlier? Um, and how can you ensure that you are, um, you know, feeding them the right information for where they are at at their retail journey?
Speaker 1: And when you're, when you're kind of planning this out, you know, and just stay focused on that journey kind of, sort of, uh, word for a second, like ... 'Cause obviously, you know, you're throwing in mobile, you're throwing in social, you're throwing in retail, y- you're throwing in online, like, you're throwing in physical, like, how do you go about kind of mapping that whole experience and making sure it's all coherent, consistent, and joined up, or not maybe? I don't know.
Speaker 2: I mean, it's a lot when you say it, isn't it?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: But, um, I think what's really exciting is that we're seeing that brands are leaning into that more, and actually the briefs that we're getting are asking for those media plans. You know, they are, you know, t- traditional kind of creative teams understand you need to have that pre and post consideration for, you know, a story to land successfully. So I think that's, you know, really exciting. And understanding and mapping that out is absolutely what us as an agency need to do and help our brands with. So whether it's about understanding that audience and offering that strategic eye, you know, speaking. It- we do a lot of interviews. We do a lot of, um, you know, round tables or focus groups, really to get under the skin of that audience. So ensuring that those outputs are the relevant outputs. And look, there are a lot, but they're not all gonna be relevant for you. And I think that's another thing that we need to be mindful of, is that you don't splatter gun and try and hit every single one of those touch points, because that may not be the, the, the right way, um, for a particular campaign. It may be that you just need to pick up mobile and social. It could be that you look at experiential, um, and you know, part of that digital world. But understanding that, again, comes from understanding the consumer and what they respond best to.
Speaker 1: I mean, these things, I'm assuming, you know, budgets can be sizable, and I, I, I'd imagine most of these experiences are expensive. How do you kind of get that balance right between coming up with a great creative concept and then bringing it to life through a strong visual idea with the need to kind of make it, make the space work commercially?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think it's, um, you know, there's, there's obviously tips and tricks that have been around for a while in terms of, you know, agility and flexibility when we get to design. You know, our, our design process is always thinking about, how can we... Sorry, can you ask that one again?
Speaker 1: That's alright. Yeah. Cool.
Speaker 2: Is it what-
Speaker 1: Basically, I guess it's just around, how do you get the ROI, I suppose-
Speaker 2: Sounds like yeah. Okay
Speaker 1: ... right? I mean, tell me I'm wrong, but-
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah
Speaker 1: ... you know, that-
Speaker 2: That's fine
Speaker 1: ... you can kind of zero in on.
Speaker 2: Yeah. That's fine.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Look, yeah. That's cool. So these things, I'm assuming, you know, can run into pretty sizeable budgets. How do you kinda get that balance right between, you know, great creative, strong visual idea, with the need to ultimately make the space work commercially and deliver some serious ROI?
Speaker 2: Yeah. And look, there, you know, historically there, there has been pushback around, you know, creativity and the afterlife of potential experiences. And actually as a B Corp agency, something that we're really passionate about is the afterlife of these activations and events.
Speaker 1: Hmm.
Speaker 2: And actually how can we reuse and re- reutilize. So we actually did an e- really exciting project for Converse a few years back where everything that we created for the event itself was then reutilized in store into retail. So it went into wholesale partners. That event space itself-
Speaker 1: Mm
Speaker 2: ... was used in multifaceted ways. It was for press, it was for video, PR, it was for training. It's to invite wholesale partners in to be educated about the new shoe. So it's, it's really understanding that actually, yes, you've got your audience, but your audience can be segmented into, you know, is it retailers? Is it, um, you know, consumers? Is it actually media partners? Is it PR? Is it media? Is it creators? And another thing that we've, um, we've started to do is actually use these spaces. We, we did something for Nike, um, Zalando at the beginning of this year, all for the NBA games, and actually the space that we created was then the backdrop for all of their social assets. So again-
Speaker 1: Wow
Speaker 2: ... we made that space work harder. Um, you know, not only was it was s- You know, the place to play for our consumers. Um, it was alwa- als- also the place for us to shoot all of the content which was then driven onto line.
Speaker 1: You've worked from store launches in the US to events in the Middle East. What has sort of, you know, those markets taught you about how brand messages travel?
Speaker 2: That they can travel really well or really badly . Um, look, you know, there's definitely been s- you know, things that have happened probably previously that haven't traveled so well in terms of telling brand narratives or thinking that it's a one size fits all. I think, you know, when we speak, or when we think about, you know, the connectivity of people, that is so, um, enhancing of experiences because it means that we can be more connected in the way that we speak to, um, our audiences. And whether that be, um, you know, within one activation or within multiple activations globally. And I think something that we, we do really well at Seen Studios is how do we localize and how do we ensure that, yes, there's one creative wrapper-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... that, you know, sings from the same hymn sheet, um, but then in each market we are tweaking nuances to ensure that we've got the right talent on board, that we've got the right artist. We're even using maybe local materials that speak really well to that audience. We're doing workshops. You know, taking that brand to where our audience is-
Speaker 1: Yep
Speaker 2: ... is the ... One of the easiest and probably cleverest things that brands can do. You know, you can't just drop a campaign and hope that it's gonna land in every market just from a central hub. You know, a global team will come up with that overarching narrative, and actually what we do a lot is how then does that translate into multiple markets so that message can land really successfully and, you know, speaks to that local consumer.
Speaker 1: Bring that to life for me. Tell me a little bit about kind of, you know, uh, you know, whether it's your own or, you know, kind of something that you really admire where you've gone absolutely excellent execution.
Speaker 2: Yeah. We work a lot with Timberland actually-
Speaker 1: Mm
Speaker 2: ... and they are really good at doing this. So they tend to build their campaigns around people to start with. So whether that's, you know, a talent, a grassroots talent. Um, so, um, we worked with Sloane, for example, who is an amazing street artist here in the UK, um, for Advice Of An Icon. Um, and we created an event and an activation that was quite gritty, underground, spoke to his audience in the UK. But then, um, you know, the event that was done out in the States, you know, they've had people like a Naomi Campbell or a Spike Lee, or someone that really speaks to that Am- an American audience. Same creative rapper, you know, but different, um, but different output when it comes to the talent. So people, and the way that we collaborate, or brands collaborate with talent is really important and actually can be really powerful, um, and can make a bit of a statement when it comes to, um, landing a, a really relevant narrative.
Speaker 1: How has sort of, you know, technology, you know, whether it's kind of just the fact that, you know, we are now living in a globally kinda connected world, or, you know, the fact that, you know, we have this huge plethora of digital, huge in some cases outdoor screenage, how's that kind of changed the way that you sort of think and approach kind of what you're, what you're creating?
Speaker 2: I think it's, it goes back to that audience piece-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... that the audience doesn't just stop with who's in the physical. You know, you have to be really mindful that people are consuming at home. You know, they could be traveling. They could be on their way to work. They could be at home. They could be static. They could be consuming this content basically anywhere in the world, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And actually, we need to ensure that these moments are readable wherever you are. So I think that's, you know, one thing that we need to be really mindful of, is that consumption is a really positive thing, but also, you know, the information that you're providing can be consumed at any moment in anyone's time. So it's thinking about that again, that end user. Is it difficult for people...? I'm trying to ... Could you repeat the question again? I'm so sorry.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I think it was, I think-
Speaker 2: Yeah. Is that enough?
Speaker 1: I think you ended really nicely.
Speaker 2: Right. Okay.
Speaker 1: No. No. I think that was great.
Speaker 2: Fine.
Speaker 1: I've ... There's no ... You don't need to add anything to that one.
Speaker 2: Okay. Great.
Speaker 1: That was great. Um, let's move on to kind of the business of running an agency. Right?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So you've, you know, you went from client services and business leadership into the MD role. What changed in how you sort of saw the business once you were running it ?
Speaker 2: A lot.
Speaker 1: Yes.
Speaker 2: Um, I think it's something that I still grapple with today. You know, I lo- I feel ... I love my job, and I love being able to run the agency. I'm very people first, and actually something that I kind of pride myself on is being quite empathic and understanding. I think one thing that has changed is actually trying to remove myself from that slightly. You know, I'm ... My background is client, and even when I moved over agency side, I'm always client first, very people first, understanding challenges, and trying to come up with solutions all the time. And actually, when you run an agency, yes, you know, that is a big part of what we do, is, you know, constantly coming up with solutions to things. But equally, it's learning to draw back from that, A, allowing the team- To work it out for themselves sometimes, because that, you know, I don't always have the answers. And, you know, B, almost removing yourself from that emotive environment and, um, being a bit more business first and a bit more... You know, not closed off, but, you know, some decisions I make, there's part of me that's like, "Ooh, is this going against how I actually feel about something?" But it's the right thing for the business, you know? So it's, it's grappling with that personal point of view, and then equally what's, what's right for now. So I think that's something that's changed quite a lot for me, um, is almost, yeah, that removal in certain situations, taking a step back, and, um, yeah, letting, letting the team, um, come to me with how they think something should be solved.
Speaker 1: You mentioned sort of, you know, empathy. Um, you know, what, what are the other kind of, like, real kind of traits, you know, that you admire and look for in talent and uh, leadership?
Speaker 2: Good question. I mean, I'm really fortunate that I've got a, you know, a brilliant leadership team, and they all bring something really different to the table. You know, we respectfully challenge each other. Um, we question things. We like to-- We're all opinionated, which is great, but equally it's, you know, it's keeping your integrity at the same time, and if you lose integrity... And I think that's something that is really important when you're, you know, you're diver- kind of, um, y- you're communicating with, with leadership. And I guess the traits are personability, you know, being personal, being real, you know.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: No bullshitters.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: You know, like, i- I wanna work with people that-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... you know, I genuinely get on with. I know that I can't always, you know, that isn't always gonna be the case in some instances. As the agency's got bigger, I have realized that I can't be friends with everybody, but the traits are that you're decent, that you show up, you know, you work hard, and, um, we're constantly learning, and I think that's also something at Seen that I'm really passionate about, is giving people that platform to continually learn, and I want leadership to be able to provide that to their teams as well to s- you know, to ensuring that I'm hiring people that genuinely have an affinity with the industry.
Speaker 1: Obviously ... Just gonna pause that for a sec. Okay. So obviously a- agencies live or die by new business and business development-
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 1: …and growth, right? Tell me a little bit about kind of like what your kind of growth kind of philosophy is.
Speaker 2: Hmm. That's r- a really poignant question, actually, 'cause we're looking at the moment at, um, you know, quite kind of like plug and play. Having a lot of conversations about CRM systems-
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm
Speaker 2: …. and, you know, what's our sales function and what's our, you know, how's our growth function working. Historically it's been, I guess, kind of founder led in terms of-
Speaker 1: Yep
Speaker 2: … relationship building, you know, networking. I met someone that's met someone and, at this. And that's how a lot of our new business has, has grown, um, up to this point. Got an amazing team and account developers that, that's how I want them to lead as well. I want them to feel really personable, get to know people on a, a more personal level. Um, I think what's maybe scary or something that I've gotta get my head around more is this kind of automated piece with new business. You know, I get it, you know, as a leader, so many emails every day, or LinkedIn messages. I'm like, "That's been written by a bot," or, "That doesn't f-" You know?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: "That's a, a, a copy and paste jobby." That I don't like and I don't think is gonna be the future. I think unfortunately automization is amazing, but you have to have that level of personability and, you know, I wanna be talking to a human.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: You know? I, I want that, and I, I do genuinely believe that is the future of business development and growth. Um, and 'Cause it goes back to that kind of personability and how people want to work with people that they get on with and that are decent. They don't want to be masked behind that automization or digitalization. So there's definitely a world where that helps and supports, but you have to have that, that personal touch, that understanding, um, because I, you know, there is proof that that works, you know? Um, it's like developing any relationship, right? You know, y- you wanna feel like you're, um, you're really connecting with someone and understanding their challenges and their, you know, their, you know, what are their goals.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: What are their goals in life, and how can we help them achieve that, whether it be through, you know, a, a new project or a, a, you know, a, an existing campaign, or actually do they want that promotion? How can we help them get that?
Speaker 1: As you grow, you know, and you're working on complicated, um, you know, online, offline, physical, digital, um, global kind of projects, how do you sort of maintain kind of high standards and quality, you know, uh, and yet still deliver a good margin at the same time?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I think obviously, one, it's about the team that you're hiring. Um, you know, we-
Speaker 3: Get open
Speaker 2: …we are fortunate that we've got a really great team, um, that work hard, play hard. You know, I'm a, I'm a true believer that- If you work really hard and you're open and you're honest, um, you get far. And equally it's the partners that you work with as well. So we do everything in house in terms of thinking and strategy, um, design and project management but then we rely on our partners to deliver and we collaborate with them so it's, it's again, it's not just about the client relationships, it, it's about ensuring that we're building really strong foundations in that third party space. Um, and you know, I've heard of people that don't treat their partners that well and actually that's, you know they're only gonna deliver the way that you're treating ... You know you have to treat them as an extension of your team. Um, so I think it's being respectful and it's being respectful of peoples skill sets. Um, it's understanding where our job starts and stops. Um, and it's, you know, ensuring that the team feel motivated and supported, um, and that they feel safe. You know ultimately we wanna create a space where our, our team feel like they can be themselves, um, as well as work really hard and get rewarded well.
Speaker 1: And what are clients coming to Seen Studios for now that they weren't maybe coming for a few years ago?
Speaker 2: I think it's looking at that full journey piece. You know as an agency, our bread and butter used to be very heritage retail activations. Now we are connecting that journey on every sense. You know retailers are not activating in a store, just in the four walls of a store. That is not what retail is anymore. You know retail is the way that you interact with a brand that might show up in a newspaper on your way to work-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... It might be the way that there's a pop-up that talks to you on the way to walking to work. Um, it's how you, you know you, you connect with a brand any point in that journey. And so for us, our clients are coming to us with much bigger challenges and you know much kinda juicier briefs because they've got that bigger journey to consider. It's not just we want to build a window display. It's we want to build a window display that talks to this person in that way that may be, you know, is a bit of an Easter egg for a competition mechanism that then gets them back into store for an event, then takes them online to finally make a purchase. So that's what's really exciting and what's really different about retailers today is they are not just thinking about that store. They have to think about that whole commercial journey and, and what that actually means.
Speaker 1: I can't think of a better way to end this conversation. Listen Katie thank you so much for joining Business Marketing.
Speaker 2: No, not at all. Thank you. Thanks so much