Lightly edited for readability. Speaker 1: Welcome to the Business Marketing. My name's John Horsley. I'm the host of this episode. We're recording live at Cannes Lions. Such an exciting, uh, environment here this year. We are within the beauty of the Depp Secret Garden, and very much have the pleasure of, uh, introducing Luca Filardo, who's Chief Revenue Officer at Adlook. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Nice to meet you, John, and thanks for having me.
Speaker 1: As a kind of an opening question, what attracted you in the first instance to the world of, you know, marketing, media, advertising? What was it that grabbed your attention perhaps as a slightly younger you and thought, "This looks like a bit of me. I'm interested in this market."
Speaker 2: Yeah. It's a very interesting question. I, I have a background in math and statistics and economics. So I started my career as an analyst for a media company back in Italy, and then I moved slowly from being an analyst to approaching more a commercial role. Um, and over time then, like I shift full focus. I loved the early days of programmatic. I fall in love with like the technology, and how marketers could access media through pipes and, um, like measure and optimize in real time, and, uh, never left.
Speaker 1: Mm. So you're kind of describing the art and the science coming together.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I love the, I love the, the, the, the tech piece and the creativity piece coming, coming together.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, um... And, and more than ever at the moment, I think the industry is living the best probably time we ever seen. Like programmatic is evolving super fast, um, especially thanks to AI and thanks to strong innovation that we are seeing today, and, um, probably will never leave it.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah. And with a business like yours, it's very much about the kind of the pipes and the plumbing and it's, it's unseen. You know, it, you know, other products are tangible. You can see them, you can touch them. Uh, other types of business systems are, are pretty tangible as well in terms of how you demo them and, and, and so on. So how do you pa- kind of paint the picture to a, a new prospective client in terms of, "Well, this is what it is, this is how it works"?
Speaker 2: Well, thank you. The client cannot see the pipes, but they can see actually our, our front end. They can touch the product. They can touch the DSP. And ultimately what they can touch is the end results. Um, we're pretty strong at driving business outcomes and improving, uh, uh, client economics, so they can touch that. They can touch how the pipes are helping them improving what matters to them.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: That could be sales, that could be like brand awareness, like brand penetration, point of lift, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: So you've obviously worked in, in sales roles across a number of companies. Um, you've been in sort of platforms, solutions roles.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And now you're in a seat versus CRO.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Congratulations.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: Um, so what do you see about revenue that I guess a pure sales leader might miss? So, you know, in terms of the function of the CRO versus perhaps a head of sales or a, a sales director.
Speaker 2: I think the role of sales changed drastically over the past like five to 10 years. Like it's not anymore about building and maintaining relationship, only by s- understanding like the market, understanding market trends, understanding the product, being able to draft a strong go-to-market. Um, so I, I, I think I sit in a very privileged position because I, as you said, I cover multiple role from like more technical commercial role to a go-to-market role, and now like a sales role. And like this variety of role that I've covered over the past, like 15, 20 years helped me to like be an effective sales leader today at Adlook.
Speaker 1: Mm. So you're also more involved in orchestration as well?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So like anything that relates to defining our go-to-market, working end-to-end with our product team to translate client needs into like valuable product that solve those client pain points. So absolutely. It's like it's not just a matter of like bring- building pipeline and moving deals to finish line and growing client, but it's also a matter to, um, truly understand what the market is, is, is asking us and translating those asking to like product that truly solve problems. So absolutely.
Speaker 1: In terms of go-to-market, how do you look at that? What's, you know, what's your approach?
Speaker 2: Very good question. So to me, everything start from, uh, you know, like being in market, like being here in Cannes this week. Like I have learned so much, like I spent hours and hours with our clients and prospect talking about their pain point, how they see the, the AI shaping their business. Like what are their business priority for the next like two to five years. So it's all about like, first of all, listening, uh, truly listening and the captured market trends. Um, so there is an handful time that we spend with, with clients, um, and in market with other vendors and our partners to truly craft and understand what, what the market is, where the market is moving.
Speaker 1: How have... I, I love that, and this is such a great place to, to be able to-
Speaker 2: Exactly
Speaker 1: ... get a sense for everything. Not just from clients, you know, well, clients, partners, um, other sort of a- associated, uh, entities and, and just generally, you know, sitting here and listening to what's happening on the stage in the background and all conversations that you overhear as well. Um, what's changed in terms of- ... expectations. Do you feel that expectations have changed dramatically perhaps in the last year? I'm thinking about AI here and how that's an accelerant. It's like f- throwing petrol on a, on a fire, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Um, and where we are now, you know, let's say looking back six months, we're in a very, very different place already, and I can't imagine where we're gonna be in, in the next six months.
Speaker 2: I think the biggest shift that we have obs- I have observed, and we as Adlook we have observed, is like a move away from proxy metrics. Like, if you think about, like, how we, we bought media for the past, like, 15 years through programmatic pipes, it was always like, "Let's find metrics that connect to our proxy to ultimate- the ultimate client goal," which is, like, you know, sales, ROAS. Everyone, uh, has a goal of increasing their market share and increase their, like, revenue and profitability. So we have been using, like, for over a decade, like, proxy metrics. Like, that could be viewability, that could be CTR, that could be, like, VCR, whatever it is. Um, over the past, like, I think one, 12 to 20, 24 months, we have observed a shift towards that. Like, marketers now are asking to optimize not anymore sort just those proxy metrics, but truly are demanding to measure ROAS at every single stage of the funnel against their dollars. That's probably the number one shift I have observed, like, accountability, uh, from programmatic pipes, accountability demanded from brands and agency on, on, on us, on vendors like ourself. So that's the biggest shift I've observed. And then of course AI. Like, like, marketers are asking us, and they've been asking all of, all of our team this week, is, like, "How AI is helping me streamline all my operation? Like, execute faster-
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: "improve my measurement, um, improve my targeting solution, like, respond rapidly to market changes," right? Like-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... um, if you think about it, we, we have so many triggers out there. Like, could be a weather trigger. That could be the World Cup going up now. It's like-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... how a result, how a score on a match can influence my marketing, and before, that was impossible. Even if we are transacting through programmatic pipes, we have to brief, we have to build targeting strategy. With AI now we can truly, like, operationalize and make changes to our creative, to our targeting, to our campaign in real time without little to no human intervention. And we as Adlook, we have talked to our marketers and to our clients and prospect about this all week. Like, a release of our new trigger product that allows marketing through LLM to respond in real time-
Speaker 1: Mm
Speaker 2: ... to changes in market.
Speaker 1: Actually, that's, that's the thing as well. So, you know, clearly, pretty much everyone on the planet who's an adult has probably tried ChatGPT, right? Um-
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 1: ... that certainly is an entry point. A- and from that, you get immediacy. So you're, you're asking a question, there it is, you're getting the answer.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: And I think that changes people's attitudes. Um, so I've seen a, a big shift. I don't wanna say impatience, I don't think it's that, but they expect immediacy now. Um, within your technology, have you made it chat based as well, so people will be asking questions and, and conversing in, in natural language?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yeah. So we have been one of the first in market to release our Content GPT product, which is like a full targeting solution based on prompts, so we are able to communicate with, with our, like, LLM, proprietary LLM, and, and, and define, like, structure your target audience in real time. Um, we are... we have built and presented this week to, uh, an handful amount of clients a trigger product based on LLM, a product that allows marketer to, as mentioned before, to capture those trigger in real time and action directly through the platform. We are in the process of releasing, uh, our chatbot that allows marketers to b- build campaigns, um, just chatting with, with an LLM, uh, reporting, uh, capturing site. So yeah, like, that's probably what the number one investment, um, at Adlook we are seeing and where we are putting our, our money, let's say.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, I'm guessing the same time you'll probably update your APIs as well to create greater sort of data accessibility, might be a, a way of describing this.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So for c- for sure, like, um, our marketers want to access their data is key priority for us. Um, we are a very flexible system, and we'll continue to evolve as we evolve our, like, AI modules.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Are you seeing your clients innovating more as well? So for instance, they might be building their own tech that they wanna connect with yours.
Speaker 2: Exactly that. Like, so we, what we are asking our clients is, "How do you want to shape our AI?" We want to keep, like, an open module, and we want to onboard client's module and then connect it to our pipes.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: So those clients can build their own AI module, but ultimately it needs to connect-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... to pipes in order to activate, otherwise it's, we are flooded with information, and it actually going to be overwhelming for, for marketers.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: So it's very important that we allow marketers to onboard their own module, and we connect those module with programmatic pipes, with, with our technology.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That's great. What is their reasoning and rationale for doing so?
Speaker 2: Every single market is different. Like, you can go and speak with, like, a leading, a bank or a leading, um, like, insurance provider or a leading auto brand, like, those marketers are completely different. Like, they need custom solution to solve their unique problems, right? Like, um, so we cannot r- as an industry and as a company, we cannot respond to- ... different problems with, like, a single solution. So we need to ensure that, um, our, uh, our tools are open to respond to those different nuances that clients are giving us.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, I would imagine that a number of clients, but maybe perhaps agencies, uh, are building orca- I'm gonna call it orchestration platforms.
Speaker 2: So, like meta- meta platform that-
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Yeah, of course. And we are having some conversation with this-
Speaker 1: But not, not just so there's, you know, serving ads or sticking, you know, other ad platform, you know, connecting up to a whole load of ad platforms. I'm t- I'm thinking to better orchestrate, yeah, to have more of a 360 in terms of the marketing and the experience that they're looking to create for the, the end user or for the consumer.
Speaker 2: Um, what, what do you mean exactly by that?
Speaker 1: So for instance, might connect to you, might connect, connect to LinkedIn, might connect to email-
Speaker 2: Yeah. So orchestrate all those different platforms
Speaker 1: ... um, various other channels and building their own system to orchestrate-
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 1: ... across multiple channels.
Speaker 2: Exactly. And we are in conversation with some of those agencies to be part of those orchestration platform.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Um, yeah, like so absolutely, yes.
Speaker 1: Mm. Isn't it powerful how AI, I mean, yeah, AI's not new, right?
Speaker 2: No.
Speaker 1: So we've obviously had machine learning or, or whatever for a long time.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And no doubt you've been using it in your tech stack-
Speaker 2: Deep learning forever
Speaker 1: ... at least probably the last 10 years.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, would be realistic. Um, and it's, it's Gen AI that has changed and started, you know, kind of transforming things. Um, something I find really exciting about it is the idea of democratization.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1: So anything can be built by anybody now. I've, I've been sat here vibe coding and building sort of some software, um, during the course of the week in between, you know, meetings and, and various other things, uh, of which I'd never have been able to have done that eight months ago.
Speaker 2: And if I may add also, this is pushing innovation.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So it's not just democratization, it's innovation. Like, if you think about, like, programmatic over the past 12 to 24 months, I ha- I have spent more than 15 years in the industry, I have never seen like pace of innovation as we are seeing today. It's not just about democratization-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... it's about, like, companies that are popping up that are truly d- driving value.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Like we partner with lots of tho- lots of those companies. Like we integrate them, we want to learn about their product, and we want to offer those pro- to our marketers.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So, uh, democratization, yes, but innovation, primarily innovation.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Like it's easier than ever to build, and, and it's easier than ever to build is opening up, like, true innovation from, from companies around the world.
Speaker 1: True. And what's so exciting as well is, it's kind of limitness in, in terms of all you're limited by is the realms of, of your experience, I guess, uh, knowledge, imagination, um, and understanding in terms of, of problem-solving.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I, I want just to say one thing, like the technology that sits on the bidder, on the DSP, like decades of development, those are not easy to replicate, um, for, for, for the industry, right? Like the scale of the pipes, the amount of, like, traffic and QPS that we manage, those are not easy, uh, to replicate, right? So, um, but yeah.
Speaker 1: Of course not. So when you're consulting with, with your clients, what, uh, what are the, the cult- core challenges at this point in time? And again, have those challenges changed and shifted?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I have said something before. Um, probably the biggest challenge that the marketers are facing today is to link every single dollar to an actual outcome. Like, that's like the number one pain points anytime I speak to marketers, anytime we speak to marketers, they are putting on the table. Like, "Help us understand how this dollar we are putting on the platform is helping driving us our key and ultimate KPI, which is, like, driving sales or increasing our ROAS or increasing our market share." Um, so that's the challenge, the number one challenge that marketers are putting on the table today to us, but I feel quite confident that they are putting to the entire, like, industry.
Speaker 1: In terms of, you know, metrics, measurement, has that changed? So outside of, right, I, you know, every stage of the funnel, ROAS, et cetera, uh, in terms of other things that people are looking to measure and why-
Speaker 2: If you think about it, like-
Speaker 1: ... has that changed at all?
Speaker 2: Y- yeah. If you think about it, like we, we bought for decades linear TV, and we were able to measure what? Point of coverage, like through some measurement provider.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Today, we can actually link the CTV dollars to an actual outcome. We can say like, "Okay, um, X amount of people that have been exposed to this ad actually then landed on your website-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... or completed an action." So we have access to an enormous and gigantic amount of, of, of, of data points that can be truly used for providing meaningful insight to marketers.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was gonna Google something actually, but you, well, you finished the answer. I'm sure there was something around commercial breaks in the UK, maybe in the '80s or something like that, where they were measuring power consumption-
Speaker 2: Mm
Speaker 1: ... because people would have an ad on there which basically said, "Go and make yourself a nice cup of tea." And everyone put their kettles on, uh, and there was some weird measurement around the fact that X number of households, uh-
Speaker 2: Did, um, do, do the cup of tea
Speaker 1: ... were sur- searching power from, uh, making their cups of tea.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but yeah, it's funny. Um, but again, like we, we do have an, like we sit on gigantic amount of data, and it's on the tech vendors-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... to build measurement infrastructure that allows marketers to measure how those dollars are driving ultimate-
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, you talked about innovation, which is great. Uh, I'm thinking about formats. So, you know, in terms of advertising formats, have they changed a great deal recently? Um, do you see them changing much more? Um-
Speaker 2: So-
Speaker 1: I know that there's obviously ad blind lists, let's call it, to particular formats. You know, the-
Speaker 2: So we saw-
Speaker 1: I imagine people are less interested in those now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we saw, like, at Adlook, we saw a drastic shift, uh, from, like, static display to animation. Like, we talk a lot about attention, uh, as an industry over the past, like, couple of years, but how attention then translate to creative. So for example, at, at Adlook, we build full module that allows us to translate those attention score into creatives. So how can we build creative that truly drive, like, eyeballs, that capture eyeballs and capture attention, right?
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Um, so definitely a shift towards rich media, high impact format. Um, strong shift towards connected TV. I'm not saying anything new here. As a company, we are seeing, like, drastic growth on, on CTV, especially thanks to, to, to, to not just the market shift, but thanks to the product that we have shifted in terms of measurement, in terms of creatives. Um, so definitely, like, rich media, high impact creative, and, and, and connected TV are key trends that we are seeing today.
Speaker 1: In terms of those formats, is there also greater interactivity as well?
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, so great interactivity. We are able to measure, like, heat maps, for example. We are able to measure how the user engage with the elements of the creative, and then readjust how those elements are part of the creative. So yeah, absolutely. We are able to provide custom engagement score based on client needs, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera.
Speaker 1: Excuse me. That's making me think of, uh, UX design.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1: So, um, a friend of mine, he's, mm, used to be paid a lot of money by banks, credit card companies, et cetera, to go, "Well, that button at the moment is, I don't know, yellow. If we made it green, we might get a slightly better conversion rate. Or if we moved it 10 pixels up, maybe 20 pixels up, uh, enlarged its size by another 10%, then again, we can measure and, and get, uh, a greater conversion rate." And even if it's p- like, you know, .2%, that's still huge for a company who's shifting credit cards, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely. As, I still remember my early days in programmatic, we were running AB tests, right?
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: So changing the call to action, like, think about this today, we can do this AB test in real time.
Speaker 1: This is what I'm thinking. Uh, and AI-
Speaker 2: Exactly
Speaker 1: ... monitoring, doing the testing.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Not one variant. You can have hundreds of thousands of variants.
Speaker 2: E- exactly. And truly, like, optimize in real time through DCO against most performing, like, asset. Like, yeah, so.
Speaker 1: Where do you see, um... And maybe this is a bit future gazing, but where do you see, um, sort of ad, ad units, maybe that you've become redundant, but, uh, yeah, a- ad units moving over, over the course of time, the types of ads that, that, um, we may be able to display in the next sort of year or couple of years?
Speaker 2: I... There's one thing I truly hope, that publisher will improve their UX, like stop floating pages with ads.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Um, because that ultimately, these floating, uh, pages with ads will move user away from the open web, right?
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: So from traditional, like, browser, browser, like, website, for example. So that's my hope, like, improve of U- UX on, on website. I strongly believe that for the open web, there will be a strong shift towards the large screen-
Speaker 1: Mm
Speaker 2: ... and towards, like, um, also mobile placement, of course. Like, um, uh, we are seeing a strong push on, on in-app as well, uh, for branding, uh, which is something that we didn't see before, if you think about it. So yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I, I think you're correct. I mean, there's a, a number of publishers that immediately came to mind, or publishing groups that immediately came to mind that in my mind are, are nothing but ad spammers.
Speaker 2: Yep.
Speaker 1: Uh, I go to their site. Uh, mm, it is plastered in ads.
Speaker 2: Christmas trees.
Speaker 1: I probably click one 'cause my thumb's big and the screen's small-
Speaker 2: Yep
Speaker 1: ... by accident. You know, they, they, they monetize. The content there in the first place was, well, barely relevant, um, but well optimized. Um, and the, the end result is I just block that site. I'm like, not interested. Never wanna-
Speaker 2: Exactly
Speaker 1: ... come up again. Never wanna go there.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: Um, I had a conversation with the managing director at Mail Metro, uh, earlier this week. Uh, and actually one of his actions was to drastically reduce the volume of ads that were being served in their site. Uh, they've raced up on quality as well. Uh, and by doing so, performance is up and they've not lost any advertising else.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Exactly, because improving the UX, then ultimately will improve attention of the ad, will improve, like, economics for the marketers. And ultimately, this will allow publisher to capture higher amount of budget.
Speaker 1: Mm.
Speaker 2: Simple as that.
Speaker 1: But, you know, we were talking sort of fusic- future gazing question as it were- Um, but what you're saying is the constraint is on the publisher side, uh, and, and almost getting structure, getting their structure, their, their site somehow friendlier?
Speaker 2: Exactly. So think about this, like look at a platform like us that optimize against like high balls attention. Like if you have a website cl- crowded with ads, like ultimately we shift away over time spent from those pages. So improving the UX will for sure improve the user experience, um, we'll, we'll, we'll retain those user and ultimately we capture-
Speaker 1: Mm
Speaker 2: ... higher budget from platform like ourselves.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, I've, I've just, I was just thinking about fraudsters just a moment there-
Speaker 2: Sorry?
Speaker 1: ... I was just thinking about fraudsters just a minute ago. So, you know, AI also enables fraudsters, um, to commit maybe c- click fraud or other forms of fraud. Have, have you been mitigating against that as well? Are you seeing, you know, are you seeing, uh, fake traffic and so on? You know, we obviously had bot traffic or whatever else for years, right?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh, but it must be at a different league or different scale now because the bad actors are also using AI on their sides.
Speaker 2: Yeah. So of course we invest heavily on, on that front to ensure that our team, our engineers are, remains best in class on understanding the trends, and, uh, supporting marketers, mitigating, uh, uh, the risk for new players, fraudulent players coming on board. We work with all the measurement provider out there, um, day to day to ensure that like we, we measure constantly, um, the traffic that we buy on behalf of our clients. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh, uh-
Speaker 2: And of course we, we ... Yeah, please go ahead.
Speaker 1: Great. Um, earlier you were obviously talking about ROAS at every stage of the funnel. Um, let's call this performance marketing. Yeah. Um, the-
Speaker 2: Brand performance
Speaker 1: ... Yeah. Okay. There we go. I was actually just about to ask you about brand. Um, so people are obviously gaining brand at the same time. How, how are you helping your advertisers measure, uh, brand?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we see it as a three layers, right? Everything start from media KPIs, then it goes to brand growth, and then it goes to business outcome, right? So the first entry point is measuring like proxy metrics, right? So, um, the classic KPIs like could be viewability, could be attention, it could be like CTR, it could be clicks, what- whatever it is. Then you have like brand growth. So how is my ad improving my point of lift, improve my brand favorability, improve my purchase intent? And we have a measurement machine that does that. And ultimately the third layer, uh, which is measuring like ROAS, measuring cost per acquisition, measuring like, um, sales lift, uh, that, that the marketer sees. And we have built a framework that allows marketers to measure every single of those stages.
Speaker 1: Fantastic. Um, do you have your own panels and how-
Speaker 2: Yeah, I do
Speaker 1: ... is that part of this?
Speaker 2: Yeah, we do, we do have our brand lift study solution, yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's, uh, fully inspectable. Marketers can adjust it based on what's the key, um, KPIs and metrics that they would like to measure and, and optimize against.
Speaker 1: Mm. Um-
Speaker 1: ... I'm gonna completely change the topic.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: So, you know, we're in Cannes, you know, it's excitement, advertising, world-famous brands, unbelievable advertising also from the tech cos as well. Um, you walk down the Croisette, you know, s- signage is leaping out at you, right? Messaging is leaping out. And-
Speaker 2: There were some spicy ads as well.
Speaker 1: So actually I might ask two questions. Is there a particular, um, tech co or brand that feels like they've owned Cannes this year in terms of their, their takeover, their branding, something else?
Speaker 2: I wouldn't say so. I, but I have the feeling that there were more ads compared to the previous year.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And some spicy ad that I don't want to comment on.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: Um, but definitely very interesting to see like more and more, um, ads from, from, from tech-
Speaker 1: Yeah
Speaker 2: ... tech vendors.
Speaker 1: I was just thinking, you know, we're, we're obviously talking about sort of brand recall-
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 1: ... you know? So that's why I, why I asked the question. Um-
Speaker 2: I do, I do recall them
Speaker 1: ... I'm thinking, you know, I walked down the Croisette, who have I seen? I've a feeling that Adobe have, have kind of been there front of mind if I'm, if I'm trying to recall.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Um, and they're not just there, I mean, they're-
Speaker 2: Everywhere
Speaker 1: ... all over Cannes, right? Yeah. Uh, have huge presence. Uh, Snap, I, I thought, you know, I could see them on these taxis that have been going around.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: These yellow taxis look really cool. Um, Yahoo as well I think have had more of a brand presence this year. Um, yeah, that's-
Speaker 2: So I think you have noticed like me that there was more advertisement from vendors than previous year.
Speaker 1: Yes. A lot more.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Which is partly why I asked the question. Um, a brand that you admire. So, you know, you sat there with your Lacoste on, but-
Speaker 2: Uh
Speaker 1: ... uh, you know, a brand that you admire and a reason why, or a, a, a fantastic piece of brand advertising that you've seen recently.
Speaker 2: Um, I love many brands. Um-
Speaker 1: Do you so?
Speaker 2: Many brands like Adidas, Lacoste, um, Ray-Ban. Um, I love watches.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's no mystery, so I love lots of watches brands and manufacturers, Swiss one. Um, an advertisement that I remember is, there is one from Adidas, uh, the retro one with Beckham, Del Piero, Yamine Yamal, the ad that they put out for, for, for the World Cup.
Speaker 1: World Cup.
Speaker 2: It's beautiful.
Speaker 1: Brilliant. Um- A go-to resource. So, you know, somewhere that perhaps, you know, gives you inspiration, um, or y- that you learn from. Could be a book, podcast, website, anything.
Speaker 2: I-
Speaker 1: But somewhere where you go and, and you, you go, "Wow, I've learned something today."
Speaker 2: I, I read the usual press, like, uh, it could be Adweek, AdExchanger. I, I listen to lots of podcasts, um, to stay... to remain informed. Um, I think we work in an industry that change every day, and the biggest mistake that we can do is to avoid continued learning. So I trying to force myself to be curious, and when I'm focused doing work, I put always, like, couple of podcasts out there, um, to remain informed. Uh, I listen to other business leaders, uh, to see what's- where is their mind, like, what they're focusing on. Uh, and I ask my team to do the same, like, remain curious, remain informed, um, because the world is changing, and it's changing extremely fast, especially now, more than ever.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, this is a very s- this can be a very stressful industry. There's, uh, a lot of burnout. There's high expectations, I think, placed on, on individuals. Uh, and some individuals struggle with, with pressure as well.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1: Um, but I think that's universal. Yeah. Um, leading up to Cannes, my wife could see that, ugh, I was fatigued, I was exhausted, I was a bit stressed, and she said, "Why don't you just get a flight, go earlier, um, and work from a, a better surrounding?" You know, "Work from a beach club, acclimatize to the heat," 'cause she knew it was gonna be an intense week, certainly with all of the interviews. And I thought that was great that she could see that and have the sensitivity.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1: Um, in terms of yourself or perhaps your team, do you have a, a, a go-to way of kind of de-stressing or advice that you provide?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I ask everyone, I remind everyone in the team to take their time off. Uh, we have generous package, uh, when it comes to time off. Like, switch off. End of the day is end of the day. Um, do not think about work. Go back home. Um, meditation is what I do, and work... like, truly help me decompress. Running. Uh, so, like, there are different activities that I do, and I hope everyone does to, to decompress and, like, find that peace.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Because we... You are correct. We work in a very high pace-
Speaker 1: Of course we do
Speaker 2: ... um, industry and environment.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, you know, people expect results. You know, so-
Speaker 2: Clients expect results.
Speaker 1: Exactly. There's, there's pressure. Of course there is. But maybe more so in, you know, in our industry versus perhaps some others. I'm not sure. I think our people are always under pressure, frankly.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: But, uh, um, the advertising industry can be particularly challenging for some.
Speaker 2: I think it's very important to find your, your way to cope with that. Like, because we work in a very intense and fast-changing environment.
Speaker 1: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 2: So it could be meditation, it could be, like, a sport that you like, uh, it could be reading. Um, anything that help you to switch off, basically, and get your time to think about something that is not work-related.
Speaker 1: And then last question is we're in, you know, kind of advisory mode at the moment. Um, a young individual who's just finished college perhaps or is at an early stage of their career who's looking at our world, you know, media, marketing, advertising, tech, um, what piece of advice would you give that, that younger individual at this early stage?
Speaker 2: Um, remain... You have to be driven. Like, you have to have that punch. Um-
Speaker 1: Some drive.
Speaker 2: Exactly.
Speaker 1: A bit of get up and go. Yeah.
Speaker 2: Exactly. Like, because a very competitive industry. Um, curiosity.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Like, take your time to study, take your time to learn, take your time to improve yourself, and then, like, every single day trying to refine. Like, "How can I do better here?" Like, "Is there anything I could have done better there? Um, how can I approach this deal in a different way next time?" Like, so always do not feel complacent, but always trying to improve bits by bits, um, something that you do. I love the fi- the Japanese philosophy kaizen, which is, like, small, steady, every-single-day improvement. Uh, so those are the three recommendation that I give.
Speaker 1: That's a great philosophy. I wasn't aware of that one. Anyways.
Speaker 2: Thank you.
Speaker 1: It's been an absolute pleasure having you on the show.
Speaker 2: Likewise.
Speaker 1: I've really thoroughly enjoyed the conversation. Um, and you know, we are in the final days of Cannes, but hope it's been successful for you and continues to be, and that you meet people and continue to get inspired there.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much.