Lightly edited for readability. Speaker 1: Welcome to The Business of Marketing. My name's John Horsley, I'm the host of today's episode. We're recording live at Cannes Lions, and we're sat in the beautiful surroundings of the Dep Secret Garden. I have the absolute pleasure of being joined by Erin Chin, who is head of Global Brand Marketing for Logitech G. Welcome to the show.
Speaker 2: Thank you, John. So happy to be here.
Speaker 1: I normally start out with a, you know, kind of a S- a starter for ten type question, which is, like, look, we're in Cannes, we're surrounded by marketers, uh, you're a marketer yourself. Uh, when you look back, what attracted you into the, the marketing, advertising, uh, media industry in the first place? What was it that, you know, kinda grabbed you and, and pulled you in?
Speaker 2: So this is a slightly embarrassing story, but I'm gonna be honest with you, I'm gonna be real. Um, I was inspired as a kid because I watched the movie Boomerang. I don't know if you remember that with, uh, Eddie Murphy back in the, I dunno, '90s, and he was an ad exec, and I really thought that it looked like such a fun career because you got to... I mean obviously it was dram- dramatized in the movie, but you know, this idea of being super creative and making these beautiful ads that people, uh, you know, can see on TV and can really like sell and drive brand love, and so I thought that would be really cool. I did not go into br- brand marketing, uh, directly f- out of college, but I did find my way here ultimately.
Speaker 1: What, what did you do when you left college?
Speaker 2: Yeah, so a bit of a pivot. I actually went to-- I started in investment banking. I worked at Goldman Sachs for a couple of years as an investment banking analyst in the communications media and entertainment group, and I helped clients, uh, look at strategic alternatives and do mergers and acquisitions and different financing deals for media companies and, and entertainment companies and, you know, it was interesting. I learned a ton. It was like the best education, but I knew it wasn't my long-term career.
Speaker 1: Cool. Um, and you were previously at Mountain Dew, uh, and then you've obviously moved to, to Logitech. Um, what experiences have you taken along the way in terms of your, your marketing career, places that you've been, viewpoints and perspectives that you've gained that you're, you're bringing now to Logitech G?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I mean, I think I've had a really fortunate ability to work at some really great world-class marketing organizations. I did my MBA internship at P&G, Procter & Gamble. I worked at Diageo for a number of years, the Jose Cuervo company, Proximo Spirits, and Pepsi. And you know, one of the things that I think has been ingrained to me as a marketer is really this idea of consumer centricity and how important it is to deeply know and understand your consumer. So knowing like, you know, everything about them, all the data, but also like what motivates them. What problems can your product solve in their lives? And I think that's something that regardless of what industry or company I'm working for, that's something that's definitely kind of, um, been with me and that I apply to all of my roles as a brand leader and marketer.
Speaker 1: So I understand at Logitech G your consumers are, are largely creators.
Speaker 2: And gamers, yes.
Speaker 1: And gamers. How do you go about understanding those individuals and yeah, from the point of view of uns- understanding them a- and to better successfully market to those individuals, uh, and also understanding the customer journey that's obviously evolving at a rate of knots at this point in time?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I mean, we have an incredible insights team and we do a lot, spend a lotta time with gamers and creators to really understand their motivations, their play styles, what they li- what type of content they like to create, what motivates them. And then we also have a process called, uh, a practice that we call Designed by Collaboration where we actually bring our esports pros and creators in right at the beginning of the product development t- process. So we're, they're sitting there working alongside our engineers and our designers kind of co-architecting the products from scratch and so, you know, we learn a lot about them through that process and we also get amazing feedback to help fu-, uh, you know, fuel our roadmap and make sure we're making the right products to meet their needs and help them game better or create better content.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I love the idea of co-creation. Could you give an example of, of something that has been co-created?
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, all of our pro gear is co-created. Most recently, um, in February we launched, um, a new mouse called, um, Superstrike Pro X2 or Pro X2 Superstrike rather and, uh, it was done in collaboration with esports pros around the world. So we literally hooked up sensors to their hands and looked at how their movements, um, could influence the sensor and we looked at, um, you know, this idea of how they're clicking and what their grip style is and, you know, it made an incredible product that's doing very, very well in the market and the reason why is because we created breakthrough technology that was really rooted in the consumer insight and the behavior of how gamers are playing today.
Speaker 1: When we're sat here at the moment and maybe to an extent, oh, I'll probably work some AI magic on the recording anyway, but we can hear creatives on the stage behind us which is great. It's really exciting. I like the vibe and the energy that these guys are putting out. How do you e- embrace the kind of the creator community and, and work with them within your own practice?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So I mean, I think for us, uh, we work with creators and we see creators as business partners not as, you know, marketing channels. I talked to you about the Design by Collaboration process and, and practice and how that works and, you know, we partner with creators, um, for really long periods of time and we have these deep human relationships with them and our, you know, our team, a small but dedicated team are working with creators on a daily basis. We have a dedicated Discord server with them, so we're talking to them on a constant basis. We're swapping ideas. We're sharing feedback. We're joking around and I think that really leads to a deeper understanding to my earlier point, um, of what that creator is and, and what the gamers are, you know, what they, what they need from us and how we can co-help each other and I think there's, you know, obviously that makes them Very huge, authentic and advocates for our product. But it also goes beyond, um, our products, and we like to pour into the creator community as well and support them as our consumer and just a community that we believe in. So we've done things over time to, you know, um, really kind of help them out. We've d- we, um... For instance, we have provided free, uh, professional mental, uh, mental health services to our creators that we work with because we know burnout is actually a big crisis in the creator community, and we want to make sure that we're supporting them as they're navigating building their brand and business.
Speaker 1: Wow. That's cool. Are you also working with underrepresented communities as well?
Speaker 2: Absolutely. I'm, I'm glad you asked that because we actually have a long-standing initiative called, uh, Creators for BIPOC where we basically work to address, uh, the barriers that, uh, disproportionately affect creators of color. So through that initiative we've done things like, um, we've, uh, partnered with, uh, a choreographer named Jaquel Knight, and you might remember several years ago when, um, Black TikTokers were striking because their dance moves were being co-opted. Uh, we actually worked with Jaquel to help them legally copyright their dance moves so that they could then own and monetize their IP.
Speaker 1: Wow, had no idea. That's great. I mean, what a great story in terms of the kind- the love that you're putting back, the care and support as well. I didn't realize that burnout was such a crisis within the greater community. Is there a lot of pressure that, uh, the creators are, are, are putting themselves under, maybe natural and, and also unnatural pressures?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think as with anyone starting a career, you know, th- these creators are starting their own media companies essentially. And, you know, a- as a startup, you don't always have the opportunity to hire the s- you know, the staff and the partners that you might need to be able to get it off the ground, and you're doing a lot of that work yourself. And I think while even if creating, uh, content is your passion, it's, you know, it, it's a grind. And I think, you know, we, we see that, and we wanna support creators and help them through that process, not only by giving them amazing tools that kind of like improve their workflows and help make that piece easier, but also support them with our services and resources in the way that we can.
Speaker 1: Yeah. No, I, I hear you there. Obviously, you know, leading into Cannes, I've been working hard on the podcast and an insane amount of hours of prepas- preparation and, and, and so on, research around the- research around the guests that are, are joining us on the show. Uh, and actually my wife turned round to me last week and she said, "Do you know what? You did suggest, uh, going out early previously. I really think you should 'cause you look really stressed, and I can see the insane hours that you've been working." So I came out last Thursday. Um, didn't work from Cannes, but found a small beach town just outside, worked from there, and that did me a, a lot of good in terms of de-stress. Uh, and I, I dunno, um, calming down before the storm that is Cannes.
Speaker 2: Yes, self-care is really, really important, uh, for all of us, right? We all work hard, we're all ambitious, we all want to make an impact on the world, um, and in our communities. And so I think just making sure that we also are conscious to pour into ourselves and make sure that we're okay, um, i- we can't do any of that and c- can't take care of anyone if we're not well.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, you mentioned P&G earlier. Uh, I'm thinking about L- Unilever as well, 'cause Unilever are huge news in terms of what they've done with their advertising budget a- and how they're putting so much more investment into the creative community, uh, and the creative economy. Um, and I feel that they probably have some fairly decent examples of, of work that they've been doing. But my question is: When brands look at creatives, they often make mistakes as well. I mean, what, what assumptions or, or what things do they get wrong when trying to engage cr- um, creators that are out there?
Speaker 2: Well, there's a few. I mean, I think, um, the biggest one to me is that brands really try to overengineer it, right? Like, I think y- the, the idea of bringing in a creator to help s- tell your story is important because we know, the data is telling us that 58% of Gen Z consumers, they trust a recommendation from a creator more than they trust an ad or a message from a brand, and so the data is telling us that this is what we need to do. But I think brands, um, inherently wanna hold on to that, and they feel that, you know, they don't wanna let go of their brand and they're concerned about brand safety. Um, so I think that they, you know, they want to drive more of the message as opposed to letting the creators do what they do best. They n- are tapped into their audiences, they know the type of content and the messaging that their audience wanna hear, and that's why you bring them in. So I think trying to overengineer that i- is a mistake. The b- the best thing you can do is make sure that you're pr- you know, you pick a right c- the creator that aligns with your brand and your values, and you give them a really great brief, and then you let them run.
Speaker 1: Do you think it comes down to fear and reluctance to a certain extent? I ... At the end of the day, you have to almost lose control of your brand.
Speaker 2: Absolutely. Yeah. As brand owners-
Speaker 1: To gain, right?
Speaker 2: ... and leaders, you don't wanna feel like you're losing control, but I think to reframe it, it's not about losing control. Uh, to me, I think the ambition and goal as a brand builder should be to build a brand and make products that are so essential to culture that the community and creators then do the work of telling your story, and I think that's a win-win situation for everyone.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Justin and I w- were talking about this the other day, but the, the idea of not being scared of, of losing control of a brand. Y- It could be a Coca Cola, for instance. Um, actually, that's probably quite a good example. Or it could be a, a Nike or an Adidas Uh, where the fanaticism around the actual product is huge a- and people a- adapt. So you know in Coca Cola's instance, um, you could be thinking of makeshift signs, people who are, you know selling... You know, you could be in the middle of nowhere and someone's always got a, you know, a case of Coke and they kind of painted a very crude Coke sign on a, on a wall like in the middle of Mexico or desert, uh, Brazil somewhere else. Um, and the fact that they're, they're embracing that now which is, which is great
Speaker 2: Yeah I mean talk about fandom Mountain Dew has some of the biggest fandom that you will see on a brand. I mean working on that brand was so amazing because we had people who would send us the pictures of their Mountain Dew tattoos and we had people sen- telling us that they were bathing in Baja Blast because they loved it so much. And so like seeing that fandom is ... and, and honestly the, the UGC ,the content that comes out of that, is really incredible. Um, and you know we did things to fuel that fandom as well. Like for instance we had h- a couple, um, and they sh- the woman, uh, direct messaged us and told us that her husband was a huge, huge fan of Mountain Dew and at every single time they took a picture together he always had a bottle of Mountain Dew in the picture with them. And, and she just wrote us letting us know that and we were- And she said that she was getting married and so we DM'd her back asked her a little bit about her and her when she was getting married and which she shared with us thankfully and we created a custom wedding cake topper that was made in the likeness of her and her fiance with him holding a bottle of Mountain Dew.
Speaker 1: Ha.
Speaker 2: And we sent to her and she used it at her wedding. She did her first ever TikTok post posting the fact that we, they ma- we made that cake topper for her and used it and she went viral. So y- you know th- that's a great example of how fandom can really, um,-
Speaker 1: Yeah and then w- uh, you know surrounding Logitech G as well there's obviously gonna be a tremendous amount of fandom as, as well as the, um, the creators that you work with. Uh, and the creators that you provide your products tech, tech etcetera for. Could you provide an example of that?
Speaker 2: Yeah I mean here's a silly one but it's real. Um, our software that we use, uh, f- or that users use to, you know tune their settings and so much more is called G Hub and I had some guys knock on my door. They were giving me a, a, you know trying to get me to do a window replacement but they were some, you know Gen Z guys and I had on my G hub T-shirt just when I answered the door and, um, he said "Oh my God I love your T-shirt. That, that j- that's a G Is- that's logic G?" I know that." And I'm like 'Oh you kno- you know it oh cool" Like," How do you know it?". He's like, Oh, I compete in your Logitech McLaren G Challenge every single year." So we also as part of my team We run these digital experiences Where we have millions of people literally competing online In a sim racing competition in Forza. Um, where they're, you know competing for prizes And ultimately they get to go to the McLaren headquarters When McLaren's one of our partners. And he was you know so excited To see me wearing the t-shirt. And so e- you know It's just another example Of how everywhere you go You can find real fans of your brands When you're doing the marketing right.
Speaker 1: I mean we- we're obviously touching on it as well But how important is storytelling to yourself?
Speaker 2: It's paramount Right up there With the consumer centricity piece Like you have to know your consumer And then you have to figure out The right way to connect with them And that is done through storytelling For sure
Speaker 1: uh, and in respect to that Do you feel that there is a rise In, in storytelling amongst brands in general At this point in time?
Speaker 2: yeah yeah I mean I think, uh, it i- it's hard to deny The power of storytelling actually, um, Coincidentally just sat in one of the The talks in the Paley yesterday Watching the Coach CMO Talk about their whole campaign Around storytelling and how they've Really made that brand so relevant to gen Z Through the idea of story So much so that they m- they you know tapping into the Consumer insight of how gen Z loves stories And are reading more books than ever before They made these little book charms Or bag charms that were actual books And then they inspired the community to tell stories And they focused it around one product And they really were able to make Their brand super relevant with gen Z. So I'm taking inspiration From things like that That I think are really interesting And that's one of the beautiful Things about being here And it's my first time so..
Speaker 1: and are you seeing A bit of shift or More of ground swell towards Brand marketing as well This point in time fo-- And also from the conversations That you've been having around Cannes ?
Speaker 2: Yeah I mean let's lets you know Brand is important right Like if you don't have a brand What do you have It really is that competitive moat That sets you apart from your competitors I mean dupe culture is surprisingly Also really big right now And you know eh you know If like People can try to knock off Your specs or your industrial design But you can't replicate a brand quickly like that And so that is really what Sets you apart and really You know Having that brand connection with your consumer Is how you'll drive growth and be successful
Speaker 1: True um, I'm just sat here Thinking I'm wearing a pair of Nike kicks But there's no swoosh You know its gone
Speaker 2: But they're but they're dope . Wow thank you so much And they have Jordan on the front so There we go of course wow Jordans always. Brilliant um, yeah with the creator economy at the moment Its obviously exploding Um, I forgot how much it's worth in the UK But it's enormous number now I Think I saw a stat that said for Twenty twenty six the crea- Creator economy is approaching five hundred billion globally Wow okay Number that I had in my mind So it thi--- I mean this Was probably from maybe a Year or two years ago it was About two hundred and fifty Billion so its grown On rocket ship exponentially Yeah yeah And honestly it's so Interesting I feel like You know, right at the beginning of the pandemic everyone was talking about the creator economy and then it kind of like died down in a weird way. And now I think people are really realizing the power of, you know, partnering with creators and how they can help build brands. And so I think it's really kind of like gone up to- into the right in a really strong way, and I think it's only gonna grow from here.
Speaker 1: When do you think that inflection point was?
Speaker 2: Ah. You know, I think ... Why do I think it was or when do I think it was?
Speaker 1: When, you know. So when did we get our hockey stick, you know? At what point and why?
Speaker 2: Yeah, um-
Speaker 1: What do you think the triggers were?
Speaker 2: It's interesting. I think part of it is I think big brands re- like having that unlock. Like you mentioned, like Unilever was very public about how they were shifting their, you know, b- brand budgets from traditional media into creators. And so I think other brands see a big successful company like Unilever, and I think they start to, you know, follow suit. I also think it has to do with the, the other data that I mentioned. Um, you know, 58% of Gen Z consumers trust creators more than they're trusting the brand messages or brand ads. And so I think that y- you can't ignore that, right? Like, you have to play there if you wanna win with this, with the Gen Z consumer.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Uh, do you also think it's to do with a change and a shift in immediate consumption habits as well amongst younger individuals?
Speaker 2: Absolutely, and, and, and it's, it's changed fast, right? I can tell you six years ago when I was working on Mountain Dew, the vast majority of our media budget, vast majority, was still broadcast television. I can tell you, I'm a mom of two boys who are 13 and 14, and they watch zero broadcast television. Zero.
Speaker 1: Yeah. That doesn't surprise me. Where are they digesting their media from?
Speaker 2: Uh, where aren't they? Uh, TikTok for sure. They, they spend a lot of time on TikTok, YouTube. Um, they do some ... It's funny. My younger one, he'll watch series and things on Netflix and some of the other platforms. My older one is exclusively TikTok and YouTube honestly.
Speaker 1: Yeah. And are they using platforms such as Snap to communicate with their friends and-
Speaker 2: Absolutely, yes. They're doing that more than they're doing texting. Like, that, that's the, that's the text message platform for them.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Um, in terms of, uh, a brand's ... Yeah, ad- advice for a, a brand trying to identify the correct influencers that they should work with regardless of, of what category they're in. What sort of process should they go through?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, I think for us, we bring it back to our brand values. We always want to ... And part of the, you know, I talked about being able to give creators, have that trust to g- to g- give creators the power to drive your brand and message. And I think the first step in being able to do that effectively is really making sure that you choose creators who are aligned with your brand purpose and who are aligned with your values as a company. That's really important. Um, and then, you know, I think also people who are genuine fans of your brand, right? Like authenticity is of paramount importance, and people can smell when people aren't being authentic from a mile away. And so, you know, finding people who already love your brand, who use your products is, is another thing that's really important.
Speaker 1: Yeah. In terms of measurement, how should brands look at measuring the activity of, of creators?
Speaker 2: We look at all of the standard metrics. You know, we look at their, you know, their engagement on their channels, and we look at sentiment and all of those things. But another thing that we're looking at is also, like, how that work and those messages translate off the platform, so thinking about things like share of search, right? If, you know, if, if a, if a message is resonating with a consumer, they're searching. They wanna know more about that product. They wanna know more about that brand. We can see our share of search spike, and that tells us that that message that the creators are delivering is driving that interest which ultimately, you know, goes all the way down to conversion once they're on the website.
Speaker 1: And in terms of advertising, do you use channels such as Twitch and, and various other channels that perhaps some of the mainstream advertisers might not use?
Speaker 2: We do. I mean, obviously we're gaming, so Twitch is sometimes a place that we're very familiar with, and we've, they've been, we've been an advertiser on Twitch for, um, quite a long time, but YouTube has actually a bigger gaming community honestly. And we spend, you know, a lot, um, or, you know, we partner with YouTube a lot on, on a lot of our media. So I think we, you know, we do a bit of a few things. Um, but for us it's just really making sure that we're looking f- and pinpointing that gaming consumer, that creator consumer so that we can be as efficient and effective with our, our reaching them as possible.
Speaker 1: Do you do many audio ads as well?
Speaker 2: We don't.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: We don't.
Speaker 1: Yeah, because, uh, you know, I, I'm thinking that people who are gaming are often streaming the audio as well.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: Uh, and I believe that there are services now where you can provide a, a level of, uh, audio ads within those streams.
Speaker 2: Yeah. And i- and honestly, it, it's a good, it's a good, um, it's a good thought. I mean, there are, not audio, but, like, platforms like an Overwolf, for instance, where, you know, it really brings the message into the game environment, um, which is obviously something that's super targeted and super relevant, um, in terms of connecting our brand to the right moment on the consumer journey.
Speaker 1: Um, in terms of go-to-market outside of influences and, and creators 'cause what we've spoken about so far today-
Speaker 2: Yeah
Speaker 1: ... what, uh, what is your approach? What else do you do?
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, well, we obviously have our direct consumer, uh, business which we drive and we work with all of the major, uh, e-tailers and retailers from the Amazons to the Best Buys, et cetera, um, and we're global. So w- think about that multiplied by every big market. Um, we have a, I'd say, a glocal model where the marketing strategy Is all set globally, um, by our business group at the center. And then we, um... The execution of that is done at the region level, so it can be, you know, more relevant to the local business practices, environment, culture, market trends. And so I think that works really well for a big multinational global company like Logitech.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, in terms of sort of brand uplift and sort of brand studies, how are you running those?
Speaker 2: Yeah. So we have a annual brand health tracker that we, uh, look at, um, you know, in depth, like an- you know, consumer questionnaires, interviews, all the qual/quant type of stuff that help drive those metrics, but we also look at performance indicators that are, like, on a more frequent basis, things that are maybe more indicative of whether things are working. Um, like, like I mentioned, the share of search. We're looking and tracking those things on a, you know, a monthly basis, as well as things like, you know, AEO visibility and that type of stuff as well.
Speaker 1: How are you measuring, um, visibility in terms of AI engines?
Speaker 2: Uh, we work with a, a partner called Profound, and they set us up with a great dashboard that allows all of us to go in, look exactly at, you know, all the data, the, the visibility, the citations, you know, all of it. So I think that is... They're a relatively new company, but I think their business model is spot on, and they definitely give us the visibil- the visibility into the data that we need.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Microsoft, I was just interviewing a moment ago, so Microsoft advertising, and they are showing the queries-
Speaker 2: Mm
Speaker 1: ... which is great, and providing access to the, those queries that have driven, uh, AI traffic through to your site in first place.
Speaker 2: Awesome.
Speaker 1: Um, with the dashboards that you're talking about, are you able to see those terms and, and those queries that people-
Speaker 2: Yep. Absolutely
Speaker 1: ... are putting in long, long form?
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And is that across all platforms, so you can see like, like, you know, what someone's been putting into a ChatGPT versus somewhere else?
Speaker 2: Yes. It also pulls, like, for instance, we, we found that, like, something... It's a staggering number, like, I think it was, like, 85% of the, of the share of voice comes from, uh, editorial or, or comms, um, earned media, if you will. And so, like, it, it allows us to kind of change our strategy as well when you see that, you know, PC Gamer is driving, like, a ton of, you know, uh, visibility and citations for, you know, for the brand.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, the reason for that is, is that that site obviously has a, a high domain authority.
Speaker 2: Mm-hmm.
Speaker 1: Um, topic authority, i.e., there's, uh, a mass of content all on the s- the same topics, right, and themes. Um, and the other, the other piece as well, again, it, it means a shift to people's strategies in terms of the content that they create, the quality of the content that they create and why, and then where it needs to be distributed in terms of embracing the ecosystem is probably a nice way of describing it, that a brand or any business exists within.
Speaker 2: Yeah, absolutely.
Speaker 1: Um, I normally end in a couple ways, so I'm just gonna... Uh, actually, I'm gonna ask you a f- a few just quick fire questions or a couple of quick fire questions.
Speaker 2: Oh boy.
Speaker 1: So, and it, it could be inspired by being here or in, in Cannes this week or perhaps not, but a brand that you feel that's doing great marketing at this point in time.
Speaker 2: Honestly, I'll just use the example that I used because I did walk away from that Coach, uh, session really impressed by how.... You know, it... I'm, I'm up there in age, and I'll say that, you know, I... Coach was my first luxury bag, but there was a time that I aged out of that, and I think there was a time that, um, you know, it wasn't the most popular or covetable bag, but I think they've done a such an amazing job of tapping into the culture of Gen Z and really becoming that most desirable, you know, first luxury bag for that consumer today, and I think that a turnaround like that is really impressive, and I wanna keep watching them to see how they continue to fuel that fire.
Speaker 1: That's awesome. Uh, a go-to, yeah, go-to resource, so, or, or something that's inspired you, um, might be a book, you c- gone to a museum, um, you might have listened to a podcast, read an article, but yeah, somewhere that, uh, inspiration has come and found you.
Speaker 2: Yeah. You know, I, well, y- I'm surrounded by ina- inspiration here in Cannes. I, you know, I, I will say that, uh, on Monday morning, I went down to the basement level and actually just looked at the work that was submitted, and it was super inspirational to me because I think just seeing how simple and tight so many of the ideas were, I focused on the social and creator ideas, um, but it was really inspirational, and I think it, it just goes to show how as brand marketers, we often overthink it and, you know, like, figure out what problem you can help consumers solve and be really creative and strategic about how you solve that problem, and I think that really takes you a long way.
Speaker 1: Uh, and last question, which is I spoke to you at the start in terms of what attracted you into marketing, et cetera, in the first place. So there, there's younger people out there who also listen to the show. They may be contemplating a career in marketing, media, advertising, tech, ect- et cetera, uh, or they might be at the start of the journey, perhaps, you know, they're, they're in their first part of the, of the career. What advice would you provide for a younger individual, um, who's looking to enter the industry?
Speaker 2: I would say, and I think this applies at honestly all stages of the career journey, I have to remind myself, uh, of this as well. I think it's really, um, being, having the self-awareness to understand what you need, and I mean, what is the... what are the resources that you need to be successful in your role? Where do you need to build your skills and capabilities to get to the next level? And even, you know, as a more senior marketer, where do you, what do you need to be able to really motivate and inspire your team to, you know, perform at the highest levels? And I think a lot of times as marketers, we spend a lot of time looking outside of ourselves for cues and results, and I think, you know, to, to turn it inward sometimes and really focus on what you need to unlock your best potential and be successful is something that I would say, uh, as advice.
Speaker 1: Great advice. Look, Erin, you've been incredible. You've been a really great guest on the show today. I love the fact that your company cares about people as well and embraces the community. Thanks so much for, for sharing your thoughts with us today.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much, John. It's been a pleasure.
Speaker 1: You're welcome